Overwhelmed with uncertainty

[karen43]

Your H agreed to take it slow, so did you remind him of that, and discuss your previous feelings about how you felt used? Maybe he would be more understanding if you talked it out, but in a calm, friendly way not upset or angry or accusing, but just telling him how you feel?

Also, that is a shame that he won't get counseling or AD's. I think if that is a dealbreaker for you, like that you won't continue the relationship without one or both, that you should at least tell him that. For example, my H decided to get involved with his OW and divorce without telling me that things he was unhappy about me were dealbreakers, and I think that is unfair, and if you are unhappy enough to divorce over something you should tell the person straight out so they have the choice of getting ADs or counseling or not, rather than losing the marriage, if you feel that is a dealbreaker to you. My H said well, I didn't think you would agree to these changes, but now it's too late, I'm in love with the OW! And I've made every single change he wanted!!!Karen43

[GoingForward]

Hi, Karen! Thanks for stopping by.

I didn't have to remind H about anything because he brought up the subject on his own. After the first time, he called about an hour or so after he left, asking if I felt ok with what had just happened. I said, "Yes. We are adults, you know. Not kids anymore." He said good because that was exactly how he felt, too.

So, yeah, I didn't tell him what I was really feeling. Again, because I didn't want to disappoint him or make him feel bad in any way for what happened. Truthfully, as I explained before, I didn't regret it at all. I just think it happened way too soon, and in another conversation which took place about a week after the first time, I did in fact share this with H. He said he understood and was sorry, but it just felt really good to touch me again. He said he couldn't help himself. (Sigh)...Can't say I blame him ! LOL...I am totally kidding!

But, as you can tell, H doesn't listen very well. Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried again so soon with the second time. I did put a stop to that one though. Calmly, of course. I do not want to fight anymore. We both don't want to. We've done enough bickering over the last 3 years to last us a lifetime and then some. I'm actually amazed at how well the last 6 weeks have gone between the two of us, although we did have a mild altercation this past weekend, but the fact that it didn't escalate into something worse like it would have in the past was a huge plus. A BIG step forward towards getting along.

In regards to C and ADs, I would love nothing more for H to get the help that I know he needs and could really benefit from, but I'm telling you, seriously, he will not go for it. Even if I were to tell him it absolutely had to happen if he wanted to reconcile. H would see it as an ultimatum, and he doesn't like ultimatums.

Perfect example: Last night, H came by to say hi to the boys. It was close to bedtime so they were already in their pj's. After visiting for a bit, the boys said their goodnights and gave their hugs and kisses to H before going to bed. H said (referring to S3), "I think it's time to bring your bed back and put it where it belongs."

A couple months ago, I took S3's bedroom set to my parents' house, thinking that the kids and I would be moving in there fairly soon. Then it was decided that we would remain in the house until we either sold it or H bought me out, and I chose to keep his bedroom set at my parents' house so I wouldn't have to eventually move it back again. Anyway, so these past months, S3 has been sleeping in my bed with me every night.

Ok, back to last night.

After H said that, he looked at me, as if waiting for me to say "Ok, you're right, I'll bring it back."

Instead, I said, "Yeah. Well, I'm not going to bring it back here when there's still a chance that it might have to go right back over there." I said this in a calm, matter-of-fact manner.

From the corner of my eye, I saw H look over at me again, so I looked at him. Then he said, like he was miffed but trying not to show it in front of the kids, "Is that an ultimatum? Are we handing out ultimatums now?"

I looked him dead in the eye and told him it wasn't anything. I was simply saying that I was not going to move furniture back into the house when things are still very much up in the air.

You know, H doesn't like ultimatums or being told what to do....Who does, right?....but he sure as hell doesn't have a problem telling me what I need to do.

I'll be back later to explain this.

[GoingForward]

Ok, so, the trip to Reno this past weekend went fairly well, I think, although it came close to not happening at all.

In the weeks leading up to Super Bowl weekend, H would often ask if I was excited about going, commenting on how he was looking forward to it.

Well, last Friday came along, and for whatever reason, H wanted to bring up the subject of the last person I had been seeing. I was a bit uncomfortable with it but went along anyway. I suppose if I had questions I wanted to ask him about who he was dating, I'm sure I would appreciate it if he'd answer me as well.

Anyway, what he was getting at was that it angered him to know that for the past year or so, while he was out working his a$$ off, I was going out and having fun. At his expense. I was spending his hard-earned cash on gas and whatever else to go out with this guy. (FYI - it never cost me more than $20 to go there, which was only once a week because of my availability, and whatever we went out to do, he always paid for everything.)

Never mind that I've been working, too, for the past year. Limited part-time work, but still working nonetheless, and in addition to what I get from H every week, I've always used my income, as small as it is, on necessities first. Little luxuries come dead last.

Never mind that he was dating someone else as well and more than likely spent money on her.

Never mind that he can go out and buy himself a Harley, while I was wrong and "irresponsible" for spending $130 on a new (needed) cellphone (and it was money I had saved up from my earnings).

Never mind that if and when this D goes through, the kids and I will receive support for x-amount of years, I will use it wherever it's needed or however I wish (sensibly of course), and there is not a damn thing he can say or do to change it.

H was getting p*ssed and felt it very necessary to let me know just how angry he was. I told him I didn't understand why he was doing this when I hadn't said a word to him about what he's out there spending himself. H said it's different since I do not earn a substantial income. Thanks.

The man nets anywhere from $6000 to $10000 a month, and here he is, giving me sh*t about having spent $80 to $100 a month on gas to go out and have fun. Are you f*cking kidding me??!!

I'm angry just thinking about it now, but at the time, well if he was trying to make me feel guilty about it, he succeeded. I started crying a little and said I just could not understand why he was doing this. At that point, I said I had to get off the phone to compose myself because it was time for me to leave and take the kids to my parents. I did not want my mom to see that I had been upset.

After all that, I had assumed that the trip was cancelled.

H called the next day (Saturday) and asked why I hadn't called him back. I said I didn't know that I was supposed to. He asked if we were still going to Reno, and I said that was up to him. He seemed so damn angry Friday evening, so I hadn't bothered packing for the weekend. I thought he might not want to go after all.

H said he was just angry, and still was when he called me back, because he felt like a chump who was out working while his W was out having fun with someone else. I said, "I wasn't the only one." He didn't like that too much, and again said it was different since he's the breadwinner.

Things were getting a bit heated again, and I finally said, calmly, "You know what? If you want to think about things that happened in the past that are only going to make you mad, go right ahead. Because I can see how being angry makes it a whole lot easier to say, 'You know what, W? F*ck this. I don't want to go anywhere with you.' "

I swear, it was so quiet you could hear a pin drop, and after about 60 seconds (seemed longer though), he finally said for me to pick him up when I was ready to go. I just said ok and left it at that.

Picked him up about 40 minutes later, and everything went fine from that point on. Checked in at the hotel, gambled some, and went to bed late. Nothing happened, and I wasn't expecting for anything to happen. H and I did share a bed, but all he did was hold me while we fell asleep. I was alright with that.

Sunday went well until we got back to the casino (we left to put gas in the truck so we could just skedaddle right after the game). As we parked, there was some guy walking nearby, and h made a comment. I said something back, can't remember what exactly, then H said, "I bet that's what all the guys you dated looked like."

Ok, it p*ssed me off, but I didn't say anything. Just got out of the truck and slowly started making my way inside, trying to let it go.

H got out and said what's wrong. I said nothing, I want to go inside. We walked in and I remained quiet.

It was bothering me that here we were, together, just the two of us, and H had to say something about "all the guys I dated". Who are all these guys?!! I only met and went out with 2 guys after we S'ed!

H knew I was upset and wanted to talk about it, I said I didn't want to. I just wanted to watch the game now. He kept pressing the issue, so I finally told him to just leave me alone. I also told him I didn't care for what he said. He said all he was saying was that the guy who was outside was probably the type I was into. Sarcastically, I replied, "Just like how you're attracted to any female with a job."

Probably shouldn't have said that, but I didn't care. I was hurt, and I wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine. As expected, it made him mad.

For the next few minutes, we argued under our breath while looking for a seat to watch the game. H said, "If this is going to have any chance of working out, you need to learn to let sh*t go and learn how to take a joke. You don't need to get so f*cking mad over nothing." I told him I can take a joke, but I didn't think that particular one was funny, and I didn't know that it wasn't ok for me to ever get upset and not have a reaction, but then it's ok when he gets mad.

I walked away to get seats, while H went to the bar. He came and sat down with me, and even brought me a drink.

I think we both silently decided to let it go after that. We continued to talk without arguing again. Even gave each other hi-fives several times during the game.

The trip back home was fine until the tire chains came off and cut the brake line. We also had two blowouts. We left Reno just after 8pm Sunday night and didn't get home until after 4am Monday morning.

What a nightmare! There were a few moments where I didn't know whether to laugh or cry! But we made it back in one piece though. Had all the repairs taken care of that afternoon.

One month to go til the court date. Still not feeling like any real, lasting progress is being made.

[GoingForward]

Some journaling.....

Just feeling very lost and confused about all of this. Up until 6 or 7 weeks ago, I knew where I was headed, knew exactly where I was going. I knew that I was on my way to being D'ed, and I was, believe it or not, looking forward to beginning a new life for myself and my boys. It took me a long time to come to terms with this, seeing how it wasn't at all what I wanted at first, but regardless, it had finally happened, and I was ready.

Now I look ahead, and once again, everything is so unclear. So uncertain. I feel so unprepared right now, not knowing what to expect or what to do, and it's frustrating me like crazy.

H picked up the boys on Friday (they'll be back tonight), and he initiated an R talk. He asked what was up, I said not much, that I was going to go into work that night so I'd have less to do the following day. He said, no, he was asking what was up with us. I said I didn't know. He said for me to just tell him how I felt. I said that's hard to do because most of the time, H thinks I'm giving him an ultimatum when I'm not doing that at all. He said just tell him.

Now here's where I feel really confused, and I said this to H as well.

On one hand, I want to continue taking things slow. I want for H to be able to reach a point, where he is absolutely certain, that he wants to be back with his family. I want for him to come to me one day and tell me, on his own, that he wants to move back in. I want to be able to know it for myself, too. I want to know, for sure, that I want H back in my life, permanently, as my husband. Not just as the father of my children or just as the man I am M'ed to on paper.

But on the other hand, I feel like a decision needs to be made now. I want to know how I'm supposed to proceed. Am I moving forward with my H or am I getting D'ed next month? I feel like if I call off the D or ask for yet another continuance, then I'm just going to find myself in the same rut that I've been in over the last few years.....waiting on H.....waiting, waiting, and waiting for him to be ready and ok with coming home. I refuse to do this anymore.

Didn't I wait long enough already? Isn't 2 1/2+ years long enough, if not too long, to wait?

When do I get to say what I want? And is that selfish of me to even ask?

I feel like if H is truly serious about being together, then he should move back in with us, do it soon, and we take it day by day. It's hard to work on strengthening and rebuilding the R when we're not around each other and we don't talk everyday. I'm at home during the day, practically all the time with the kids, and H is at work. In the evenings, I know where I am (at home), and I haven't got a clue as to where he is, but I don't care about that. What I care about is losing that time; Time that could, and should, be spent together, with the kids or just the two of us.

So basically, if we're going to stay M'ed, then I think H should return home to us so that we can actively work on our R together. I don't have the desire to be S'ed any longer, whether it's for another month or another year, and I don't have it in me to wait on H anymore.

I want to move on with my life. With or without him. I owe it to myself and more importantly, to our children.

After telling him this, H didn't really say much other than ok. Then he gave me a hug and told me to have a nice weekend. I wished him the same.

Thanks, just had to get it all out !

[karen43]

It sounds like your H is really hurt by your dating other men. I think that is understandable cause I am going through my H dating an OW now. I have read that you are supposed to answer your spouse's questions and I think if you do decide to do that, you should try to remain calm and not do it in an angry way. If you just get in fights, then maybe you should both agree not to do that or at least not for a while until you are able to do so without the fighting? I think you have a good point about your spouse moving back in to work on the R if he is serious, but maybe someone that is more experienced than I will weigh in with their opinion since I am relatively new to these boards! Karen43

[lou_uk]

Hi Uncertainty

Your sitch is practically identical to mine. Married in '97, 2 boys aged 8 & 4. Had the 'speech' in Sept 05. EA with a work colleague had begun by then. H left in April 06.

Always maintained he loved me and we continued to have a sexual relationship up until Dec 06. We did carry on doing things as a family and a couple of dates together. He was very mixed up. Missed his kids and has really developed a fantastic relationship with them since he left, that is maybe the only good thing that has come out of this nightmare.

We sold the family home in Dec/Jan 07 and I moved into my current home (owned solely by me). Things changed then. His relationship with the OW developed into a sexual one in Spring 07 and I found out about it in Sept 07. Began divorce proceedings and he talked about R, but it was all talk, no action. I too had been dating on & off but no-one serious.

Christmas, he was a wreck and asked again and again to try at a R, so i finished with the guy I was seeing but my H couldn't end it with the OW - god knows what hold she has over him, or maybe he loves her but just can't admit it. I'd put the divorce on hold, but started it up again a couple of weeks ago.

He has till Friday to respond and pay some money towards court costs. I don't know what he plans to do.

I just don't know what he's done. Our marriage was never that bad for it to end this way. We still love each other and he, like your H misses the family thing.

I would have him back and try again but I'm no longer begging or pleading with him. I would work at our M, with all the problems I know we would face because I believe in marriage, family and commitment. My timeline is running out. He sent me a text at the weekend saying 'I have always been standing in your doorway', but that's no use to me, he needs to come in and put his arms around me.

What will be will be, after 2 years and 6 months I'm all cried out....good luck

[GoingForward]

Hi there, Karen and Lou. Thank you both for your visits.

Karen,

Yes, I do believe my dating other men has hurt H. When he found out that I was going out and having fun, I could tell that it bothered him, and even more so when he knew that I was seeing someone else on a more consistant basis.

After discovering H's A back in 2005, I bought and read "After the Affair". I do recall how the author (Chapman?) said it would be best to answer whatever questions the hurt spouse might have, and to do so calmly. I have done that - H has probed, more than a few times, into what the other men I dated were like. It was a little uncomfortable for me, but I remembered how I felt back then. About my curiosity and my need to know what the OW was like. What did H find desirable about her? What did she have that I didn't?

Anyway, I've never had a real problem with answering H's questions; he did the same for me back then even when I could see that it was difficult for him. But what caused the argument that weekend was my frustration. I felt that H and I should have been focusing on us. On our R. Not cracking jokes or bringing up past dates outside of our R. What purpose did that serve?

I was trying to let it go, but H kept pressing the issue, and I lost my cool. My patience with H has worn thin over time. It was a mistake, but, if anything, at least it didn't blow up into a full-on fight like it would have in the past.


Lou,

I looked up your previous posts, and it was as if I was looking into a mirror. So many similarities, it's uncanny.

H was dating someone (always denied it but finally admitted it just before Xmas 07), as was I, but is adamant about having ended it. It's very difficult for me to believe him knowing that she still called him after he told her not to (this is what H claimed), and I think it's always going to be an issue since she is close friends with H's sister. Last I heard, which was just a couple of weeks ago, she was planning on moving in with H's sister. If that's the case, she's not going to be very far from the picture.

I'm having a really hard time with that, and there's really not anything I can do about it. It certainly isn't my place to tell SIL who she can or can't have rooming with her.

Anyhow, I'm tired and fed up with his cake-eating. I think, as do you, that my H might not really want to be with me, but he doesn't want anyone else to have me either. In fact, while we were intimate once during the early months of our separation, H said, "No one else gets to do this with you, right? Even if we're D'ed, right?" What nerve.

Same as you, I haven't begged or pleaded either in a looooooong time, and I do not plan to any time soon. I'm past all that. This last Friday night, I told H, "Come March, I'm either going to be M'ed and taking the R day by day, together with my H, or I'm getting D'ed." I told him it was not an ultimatum; it's just how I feel.

Although I haven't always succeeded, I've been pretty darn patient, and I've tolerated and put up with a lot of wishy-washy nonsense. If possible, I would like my M and my family to remain intact, but if H goes right back to being all talk and no show, then I have to do what I have to do for my own well-being.

Thanks again, and I wish you well, too.

BTW - When H brought the boys home last night, he was feeling pretty down. Talked about how unhappy he is with the sitch and his life. Said he wishes he could just feel normal. (In the past, this is where I would usually bring up talking to someone, a C, but it was always to no avail.) Well as he was leaving he looked back into the living room and said, "So do you want to get new carpet for the house? Some new flooring?" I hesitated a bit and said I didn't know. It really depended on what was going to happen with the R. H didn't say anything, just looked sad, then said ok, have a good night. I told him to do the same then he left.

[GoingForward]

Just wanted to note a small positive....

Got a recorded message from the junior high that S12 will be attending next year, informing me of the upcoming orientation which will be this Wednesday evening. I have to work that night.

So I called H yesterday to ask him what his schedule was for Wednesday, and he said he'll be working dayshift. Told him about the orientation but that I had to work. Before I even finished my sentence, H said, "No problem! I'll take him." I thanked him and we discussed arrangements for Wednesday. Chatted for a bit then wished each other a good night.

Like I said, a small positive. In the past, H would've said he was going to be too busy, couldn't, or he just didn't know (if he could help). He'd say he'd get back to me, then wouldn't until the very last minute, sometimes not at all. After it happened too many times, I finally stopped waiting on H to call me back and just started calling other relatives whenever I needed help with the boys.

[GoingForward]

Wanted to change my screenname. Although feeling "uncertain" was how I felt at the time of registering on this site, it's not how I feel everyday.

Some thoughts now......

When H initiated the R talk last week, I got the impression that he still has doubts and is teetering again. He gets this "I'm scared, confused, and don't know what to do" look on his face. I've become very familiar with it. When this happens, I don't exactly know how to handle it. What do I do? Do I even say or do anything at all?

H has always been an individual who needs a lot of emotional support. Numerous times throughout our R, at H's request and sometimes not, I would hold and reassure him that everything would be alright, even when I was unsure myself.

Sometimes when we're on the phone, I can hear it in his voice. I'll ask him what's on his mind, and he'll reply with "the usual" or "I don't know...everything, I guess". I never know what to say, other than it could always be worse, and he should be happy that he's fortunate to have what he's got, and try remembering what goals he's achieved. I try to make him feel better about things.

Asking if he'd like to talk to someone, anyone, about it would be going down a cheeseless tunnel, so what can I do? I'd like to help, but it's seems almost impossible to help someone who doesn't want it.

Well anyway, I have decided to keep focusing on myself. Since H's talk of reconciliation several weeks ago, I went back to focusing on the R a little too much. I must stop doing this for my own well-being. I need to get back to where I was a couple of months ago. Going forward with my life.

I will remain open to the idea of reconciliation although I will not talk about it (I actually haven't - all R talks have begun with H), unless H initiates it. If he wants to work this out and stay M'ed, he's gotta move back home so we can actively work on the M together. It's been impossible to do so when he's living over there and I'm living over here. It's too easy for him to turn away at the slightest bit of turbulence when he doesn't have to live with us.

I'm going forward with the D as planned, unless H gives me solid proof that the M is what he really wants.

3 years is too long to be uncertain. I won't live with fear and doubt any longer.

[GoingForward]

Just as I suspected, H is still in contact with the girl he was dating before coming to me with talk of reconciliation.

We got into an R talk, and he confirmed it.

It hurts, more than I thought possible. I thought I was past the hurt, thought I couldn't hurt anymore after going through all that I have these last few years.

He lied to me again, and it hurts. It really hurts.

He was supposed to have the kids with him tomorrow night (Valentine's Day), but said (before the R talk) he had to work a double shift. I suspect this isn't true either. He's probably taking OW out.

Why? Why did I give him the benefit of the doubt? Why does he always have to lie? Why?