We had a really good family day together, W seems to be putting the emphasis back on family.
I took D6 to her morning dance class while W went to the hairdressers. After the dance and the hairdressers, we all went to the coffee shop and had coffee and doughnuts, D6 really enjoyed that.
Left D6 off at MIL, W and I went shopping looking at furniture didn't buy anything but we know what we are going to get. Late afternoon I washed my car, W was on the phone with MIL organising dinner, MIL made spaghetti meatballs for us a and I went to pick them up later. After dinner we had our movie evening planned, the first of the 3 Pirates of the Caribbean films.
Originally Posted By: fish 01/13/08
W asking you to watch movie on Saturday night is outstanding. Make it fun... make some popcorn, have a pizza delivered, whatever.
Watching the movie was fun tonight, both D6 and W snuggled up with me to watch the movie we had popcorn and fruit juice. D6 fell asleep, so I put her to bed. W just manage to watch all of the move before she started to fall asleep. W and I went up to bed, W on her back, me on my front, my arm around her waist. I moved my hand to try and touch her, hand got slapped. W fell asleep.
Originally Posted By: Lanzo 01/13/08
W and I stayed in and watched a couple of movies, one gripping drama and then a light hearted comedy. We had chocolate and fruit mix desserts and a couple of glasses of wine. I kept my expectations low and W had no problems in meeting these. It was almost like the old days, the two of us sitting in together. W actually stayed awake and seemed to be enjoying herself, her falling asleep in the past used to cause me immense frustration and contributed to use drifting apart.
I get up come down onto the computer and start journaling.
Examples of the former: "family day" and "TV night". For the latter you'd have to go a "problem" at a time - for example, the problem of W falling asleep in front of the TV. Have you considered moving the TV to the bedroom?
We have a TV in the bedroom and on some occasions we have watched movies there, but the net effect is the same. W falls asleep.
Actually now I think about it I could use this as the topic for our first not so serious R talks. How to enjoy the movies and me not get upset by W falling asleep.
I am drinking coffee now (10:45!!!!!). (I haven't rested so much since I had my son, when my H takes the kids I feel I am at college again!!).
Sometimes, back in the good old days, I would fall asleep too watching TV, Ok my H didn't mind but it bothered me. With the 2 kids running around all day I felt I should stay awake longer just to be with him. And I honestly tried but I couldn't. I was so tired I couldn't keep my eyes open. Lately (still good old times), he was initiating sex around 3 in the morning after we both had a couple of hours of good sleep and it worked. So, after a while this was like our own private time (3-5 in the morning).
Then I realise I had been missing FE (iron?). And that makes you really tired and sleepy all the time. So I got on a simple treatment, was eating better and my energy levels came back to normal again. Have you thought of things like that?
Sex seems to be an important issue for your W if she uses it for punishment. Could that be her LL? Even if you don't believe it could be, think about it. Why would anyone use it for punishment if they didn't think it is very important? Unless she thought she could control you with it because it is your LL. Women are weird about sex. I know that. It could be a very small detail that you are missing that doesn't complete the picture in her head. Time and location is important. Try to have some private time together, you seem to concentrate on family time but what about you and w time? Is it possible for you guys to get away for a weekend with no D?
Finally, how are you FEELING? (I hope you do not mind me asking).
Time and location is important. Try to have some private time together, you seem to concentrate on family time but what about you and w time? Is it possible for you guys to get away for a weekend with no D?
Exactlly !!! I was laying in bed this morning thinking, family time, movie time, we must make some H & W time.
Anyway when W woke up and I brought her meds and a cup of water I told her we need to have a semi serious chat, striaght away she said, "I was really tired last night". I just said the chat won't be too deep we just need to talk a liitle bit about what our expectations are for the weekend. So we we'll se how that goes.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Sex seems to be an important issue for your W if she uses it for punishment. Could that be her LL? Even if you don't believe it could be, think about it. Why would anyone use it for punishment if they didn't think it is very important? Unless she thought she could control you with it because it is your LL.
Sex seems to be important to W but she has managed to keep that fact hidden from me. She knows that I'm "hot blooded" and touch is my LL, and from the very early day she's used thaat to try and control me. But all thats done is push me away. If I look at how she reacted to that, she's upped things a level and gave it away to someone else to try to regain control. Somthing I would never have thought possible. Well lots for us to talk about there.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Is it possible for you guys to get away for a weekend with no D?
We've been discussing this, we'll come up with somthing soon.
Finally, I'm feeling good overall, things are going well, I just feel I need to have some more open discussions with W where she can let me know what her fears and concerns are.
I had some R talk with W last night and it's left me so frustrated that I'm not sure if I can accurately portray the conversation in this post.
The bottom line is W wants to reconcile but she doesn't want any help, so no MC, no books, no reading materials, no Retrouvaille, no computers, nothing, she just wants us to carry on as we are and see if we can get along. Kinda like sweeping things under the carpet and not addressing any of the issues. I mean, we tried this way two years ago and only managed to get back to this poor position. Already in this short space of time I can see similar patterns of behaviour occurring and similar mistakes about to be made, in short I can see a train wreck approaching.
W has also said that she thinks I spend too much time on the computer, in her words "she can't get her head around it", she doesn't understand the need. I tried to explain to her that I read marriage and relationship stuff cos I don't want to make the same mistakes as before. I tried to explain my current book (5 Love Languages) to her, but I could literally hear the tumble weed blowing across the room as I was talking. It seems she's just not receptive to any of these things.
W has always been very good when we argue cos she can shout without thinking, but when it comes to deep conversations she just clams up and leaves me to talk. This past six months has seen me arm myself with so much knowledge that a lot of things I want to talk about will be too revolutionary,and over the top for her. So I can see a long struggle ahead.
We did touch on things like her falling asleep, H & W time to compliment family time. Also the need to talk more, but she said my computer time gets in the way of this and by the time I'm ready to talk it's late and she wants to sleep. I could dispute that, but ok, I'm gonna make time in the evenings to talk.
So I want to move forward and reconsile but I don't want to move forward without a plan of action, I think we need more than "lets see if we can get on".
Don't get frustrated. I am sure a lot of Ss are like this (I know my H is). Let's think about it and I am sure you/we'll find a subtle way to get her on board for a conscious effort.
I'll get back to you, I need to think about it because I agree with you, you can't leave anything to luck...
Perhaps you might have to employ some stealth tactics here - How about asking her what it "looks like" when the two of you get on - to her that is - simply cos you want to make sure you're both on the same page with it. That might enable you to talk with her about a few things that can help. Could it be that at the moment overt trying is challenging to her cos of the connotations it brings?
Best - GFI
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
I was reading just this old post by eskb on all of his fear on piecing his marriage back together, and all of my fears are the same as his. He also includes the one where you have the feeling that the WAS is not trying as hard as you are to piece things back together.
2. Apparent unwillingness on the part of my W to work on the R. I say "apparent" because I think she thinks she is working on the R in her own way. However, she still avoids all of the following: R talks (including discussing my needs and issues, discussing the OG and the A, and discussing how we can improve our R), reading any R books or information on websites, going to a MC, etc. She seems to think that if we just both try harder (but especially me), that will fix all the problems.
Lan, It seems like you want her to approach the marital problems using your style. You need to give her the freedom to be herself.
I can understand your fear of backsliding. However, your fear is going to undermine your reconciliations efforts.
If you feel like you need a concrete plan to move ahead, develop one for yourself. Working on oneself first is the foundation for successful relational problem-solving. If your W isn't ready to hit the ground running with relational problem-solving than take stock of yourself, and see what you can still improve.
Work on managing stress and your emotions. Your fear is a trigger for thinking that unless your W acts the way you want her to, then the M is doomed.
Slow down your spinning mind. Work with and accept what you have--moment to moment, day to day. Influence what you can, accept the rest. Build on the positives in yourself and your M.
You say that you and W will talk tonight. How about putting more emphasis on listening, and finding out what's important to her? If she feels like you're not attuned to that, there will be no forward movement in the M.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I take your point about slowing down I guess Rome wasn't built in a day
Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener
Your fear is a trigger for thinking that unless your W acts the way you want her to, then the M is doomed.
This is exactly how I feel, this is based on past mistakes and the fact that W wants to reconsile in exactly the same fashion as last time and that didn't get us anywhere. I want to see us do somthing different, have an idea where we are going, not just "work harder" and hope things get better.
Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener
How about putting more emphasis on listening, and finding out what's important to her?
I would listen, but when it comes to serious talk W clams up and doesn't talk, she always wants to hear what I have to say. If we argue then she ll let me have it with both barrels otherwise not much comes from her.
Thinking on, I'll probably leave any serious talk for now.
