sgctxok....I'm listening.....

[Jeanette1120]

Actions speak louder than words.

Yes they do. The action of divorce is loud and clear. But I do wonder at whoes actions you are refering to? His or hers? His action of having a divorce decree stamped sealed and put on public record forever? Or her actions in attempting to stop it? Again, I am NOT SAYING after a divorce you can't reconcile. But FIB is in a "saving your marriage" site. So in my mind, the action of filing would be a negative if he even thinks they may have a chance. Could there not be another way?

To prove she is worthy of you.

Again, to prove ones worthiness....?? What does one need to do to show worthiness?? Especially for the female who is trying to restore thier marriage. Men are not as likely to PROVE anything.
I agree that she does need some therapy, hell I need therapy. But tell me....how does it get proven. Oh, and this should have been the first thing I said. We only NEED to prove our worthiness to God. We should understand, support, listen and be there when needed.

Without therapy, she will never understand the pain

With therapy one may never "understand" the pain. We may learn how to accept it, forgive it but the actual understanding of what pain, despair and utter devastasion she/he/any one left behind feels is highly doubtful.

Don't stop the D, if that is how you feel

No FIB, don't stop it if it is TRULY how you feel. Just be clean quick and concise. Be sure that thier is nothing left in your heart for your wife. No one would blame you for what has transpired these last few years. It's very tiring even humiliating at times. But we came here, we chose to do this.

Don't look at this as offending or stepping over my boundaries, I am simpy trying to understand.

Jeanette

[sgctxok]

Praying for every blessing for you.....every wisdom, every peace...and lots of lots of love. Praying for your miracle.

[AmyC]

Your W has a lot of work to do.

To prove she is worthy of you.

Yes, she needs to undo all that she did

But she can only do this when she understands, Why.

Without therapy, she will never understand the pain

She caused you, your kids, your family, her family

And now herself.

I personally and categorically disagree that therapy is the only way to come to understand what a person has done as a WAS. I came to understand crystal clear what I had done and it happened over a course of every night for two weeks alone in my bedroom with my face to the floor in repentance. There are some things that don't require a therapist's help to comprehend. Just repentance and a sincere desire to see oneself as GOD sees them no matter what that might cost them in personal brokenness at the time.


AmyC

[always_14]

Hi FIB. Just popping in to say hi.

This is a good thread - about choices. I understand what you go through with your W, but it's just as 'off the wall' as my xh - once I came to understand what was truly going on.

First, I support you in whatever decision you make. I know you come from a place of love for your W and kids - that is a stance I trust.

Second, I think you need to remind yourself of the root here - this discernment is key and puts all standard DB advice into perspective. I think, when you're standing too close (as I do with my sitch) it's hard to do.

You have said that your W has a mental illness - not just MLC. Her more-than-usual-MLC bizarre actions have proved that. You tried to get her help. It has come close to harming your children. She cannot stick with the help. This is not about pointing fingers....rather, finding a bit more compassion for your W...and understanding your own choices.

So, if this is the case....understand this. She will hear your words, but she won't feel the regret and guilt you think she should. I tried this for too long. Honestly, they forget a lot of what they do. So, tell her for yourself, to vent to speak your mind. She's zapping back and forth each time I check your thread. That seems more of a chemical and mental health issue rather than an inability to commit or irresponsibility, or a bad life crisis - she went to a psychiatrist to get diagnosed.

There is a difference between a serious mental health issue and a life crisis/stage in life transition. There is a whole field in your profession dedicated to this. None of us are those professionals. We can give YOU advice on how to cope, survive and understanding, but not how to salvage a relationship from a person dealing with a serious issue. I want you to save your M, too. I also think your W needs more serious help in addition to tough love, finding God, doing a 180, or patience.

All of these things are good helpers for mental health issues - she needs prayers, patience, 180s with treatment or approaching it, and maybe even tough love. But, I have yet to hear a licensed psychiatrist say that is how they choose to exclusively treat patients with an imbalance. From what you write, it really seems that your W can't control herself. I saw that in my xh too.

Therapists are not there to make you understand anything. Therapists ARE there to give your W the help she needs to come out of this, or learning to live with a mental illness. I do believe that anyone who comes out of something serious, even like MLC, needs therapy to address core issues and perspectives. It does a world of good.

Again, I just want you to keep in perspective the root of your W's behavior. Core principles apply - but some things are very different.

I'm not saying to divorce or not. That is so personal. And, this perspective does not go against DB principles.

[faithisbelieving]

Been very busy...lifewise...my office manager is out and I am running everything. Just a few quick notes:

I mentioned making her suffer because of what he said about making her realize the pain and suffering he went through.

Jeannette....I never said this or it was taken out of context. My W kept saying that I was trying to or intentionally going to destroy her by choosing divorce by 'cruel and inhuman treatment. I have told her in the past that I cannot do a separation and dangle another year in the breeze when she had two years now..two years and three indiscretions to know what she wanted. I also told her that my L told me that separation was NOT in my best interest if there was no hope for reconciliation. It was my determination that recon was dead. So..that line...was said to her to explain that by deciding to go forward, the state of NY only gives me one way to go...that I kept it as factual as I could ..that these 30 were not meant to HURT HER..but to show what hurt me...NOT TO TRY AND MAKE HER REALIZE ANYTHING. In fact, I told her that she had two choices:

1. read all 9 pages and say,"that F'in FIB...what liar....what a $hiThead....all lies...I'll get him, ...or....
2. read all 9 pages and say , "I cant' believe how I hurt my husband, family and children

I do agree that my W has issues far deeper than MLC...and some of them may be incompatible with a stable and healthy marriage. I can tell you one thing for sure....3 indiscretions is enough to last anybody a lifetime...being an excellent liar may be far worse.

Time will out. I have not stopped anything. My W doesn't want a D. Actions speak louder than words.

FIB

[Bworl]

FIB,

What was her response indeed...

Does she realize that something is broken inside of her?

I would be so much more encouraged if her response to you was that she loved you with all her heart and couldn't stand the thought of losing you. Or maybe something along the lines of realising the mess that she had made of things.

So now you face a tough road my friend...

Because I know that you still love her.

And what if...

I know that you've talked, and I know that you cannot share with us everything that is said between the two of you. At some point she MUST realize that not wanting a divorce is not enough. There must be some action involved as well.

If I don't pay my electric bill for months in a row, it will get shut off. I won't want it to get shut off, but that won't be enough to keep it turned on.

I have to pay the bill.

Obviously this is a bit more involved and meaningful than a utility bill, but the concept is surely similar.

You've been there through all the mess of the past year and a half, you've been strong for her and your children. You've done 180's, detached, worked on yourself. You've tried to walk along side her through counseling, whether on her own or for the two of you together. You've found a way to work your way past her repeated involvements with others.

Now, as so often happens, when you've reached peace with moving on in a real and tangible way, she is afraid and wants it to stop. I mean, damn, these are the words everyone wants to hear from their wandering spouse. But you don't have to read for very long on this board to realize that the WORDS are not enough. That those who change their course JUST because of the words, are often right back in the same place months down the road.

I believe that she can show you that she means these words. Despite her challenges and the issues that she battles, I believe she has the ability to make her words reality. And I believe that your love for her would allow her to do so. I believe that your love for your family and the potential future you could have together will compel you to allow her the opportunity to do so.

But it's time to "woman up" so to speak.

It's time to stop chasing other men. It's time to stop acting as though she could care less about YOUR life. It's time to start acknowledging that there has been something wrong inside of her, and agree that it's time to do something about it.

You've drawn the line before and she crossed it. It's time to draw a new line, one that the two of you decide on together. This needs to be a different line though FIB. This needs to be a line that you WANT her to cross, because this should be a line that lets you know in your heart that she is serious about coming back to you.

I hope you noted the "together" part of that last comment. It's not time to issue commands. That's not part of a loving relationship. That's not communication, it's authority speaking.

Wow.

Seems like every time I think you're getting close to a place of peace, your story changes direction. But you are in a strong place now, hopefully a good place now to be able to deal with what lies ahead.

Stay the course.


Blessings,

Bill

[AmyC]

I believe that she can show you that she means these words. Despite her challenges and the issues that she battles, I believe she has the ability to make her words reality. And I believe that your love for her would allow her to do so. I believe that your love for your family and the potential future you could have together will compel you to allow her the opportunity to do so.

But it's time to "woman up" so to speak.

It's time to stop chasing other men. It's time to stop acting as though she could care less about YOUR life. It's time to start acknowledging

AMEN!

It is a hard row to hoe but it CAN be done.

It will certainly show you both what she's really made of, FIB, I can tell you that without a shadow of a doubt!

But it's her call...

[ford]

I think she is smart enough to figure out how to stop the divorce train. it should be obvious to her that her way of living for the last 18 months is over.

she'll either go Britney Spears on you, or slowly return to the woman she used to be, only better this time, hopefully.

[NewHorizons]

Caveat...she'll never be the woman she used to be, whatever happens. She may become a more stable and loving person and more involved parent and spouse.

FIB, I hope things are well in your world today. Positive thoughts.

NH

[faithisbelieving]

Bworl, ford, amyC, NewHorizons...my thoughts for today.

I think we all start out here initially wanting to 'fix' our M's. We start doing all sorts of kooky crazy things thinking 'well, I read Michele's book...I can do that...I can win this...I'll get them to come back.'

And then..it doesn't quite go the way you think it will. You learn about control and lack thereof. We get our support systems here, and, thankfully, most of us are lucky to have some really great people sail in and give us advice. Some of our followers are true blue and stay forever. Others pop in from time to time and can give us some great caveats.

It's a tough startout as we all know. It's sorta like my own professsion, medicine. Most of us hate going to doctors..including me. Who wants to hear bad news:
-you're overweight..lose it
-your cholesterol is up..diet or you are going on Lipitor
-there is a shadow on your mammogram; we should do a biopsy

Scary stuff.

Yeah...who wants to come here and learn that:
-you were too controlling
-you should be in charge of the sex department or you become deficient in providing
-your behavior was 'little boyish' or 'little girlish'
-or, even more scary, your M was boring

WHEW...yeah...not easy to hear that you were a dork...or immature...screwed up...failed...etc. What other words do we hear that sting. Oh yes....BLAME. Yeah...I should have had more sex with my W/H standing on one leg...in a public elevator..with black undies...with a martini in one hand.

NOT.


But..like the doc...how can you get better without an examination by an outside observer, develop a treatment plan and make improvements?

So, we drop our weight...go back to exercising....become better parents.....let go of control..become better listeners...release the 'little boy' or the 'little girl' inside.

Some people, like Atlas, carry the weight of the world on their shoulders. They take horrendous emotional punishment while supporting themselves and their families. Like Mr. Hoyt in the video..when you've gone 20 miles and have no energy left...you pick up your son..or daughter..or family (YOU FILL IN THE BLANK)..and you carry them to the finish line. You begin to see that ..yes....YOU..have value. YOU have self-worth. Yes..YOU...are a good person.

Jeannette....ford...bill....Jeff....25..DonH...YES....were had our issues and faults but..we WERE good spouses and like someone posted here...the very fact that all of you came here SHOWS that you were committed for the longrun...that you understood the meaning of your vows when you walked down the aisle...that you were willing to change IN SPITE OF FINDING OUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH OURSELVES. We came to the doctor to get better.

At what point are we deserving what many say is the crux of this...respect? Note that..of late....I probably leave more questions in posts than answers.

When we first arrived here, if we 'demanded' to be treated right..or 'insisted' that our S's dump the OM's/OW's...or wanted to vent our anger at being betrayed or disrespected, what would be told?
-GAL
-become attractive
-don't get dragged into an argument (for many, that means holding in anger and repressing feelings)

Right?

We're told that DB'ing is a way of life.

But when does it become time that YOUR/OUR emotional needs become met/fulfilled?
-when should we expect to go to sleep knowing that our S is next to us and not out with someone else?
-to know that you can trust in what your S tells you as truth?
-to be touched and held and know it is real?
-to not have anger ALL the time?

When do THEY have to 'pitch in'?

When do we begin to compromise for the sake of finances and the children at the risk of our own perpetual lack of fulfillment?

On the flip side:
-can people really change? and..if they can...DO WE deserve some...lets say 'emotional coddling' after what we went thru? or...some sign of true committment that our S REALLY wants back?
-what DO THEY HAVE TO DO TO UNDO THE LIES, INFIDELITY, etc...to get your trust back...SHOULD YOU trust them at the outset??

My W insists that I kiss her now when leaving the house. She demands to be held.

My complaint will be delivered to her L at some point and my W will read 9 pages of what happened in our M over the last 2 years since coming here.

It would be interesting to click the 'poll' button here and see what you all would guess would be her reaction.

Using an old phrase: staying the rock for my family right now.

FIB