I don't know if I can handle it... To be completely honest with you.. I know the reality of what you are saying, I am trying to prepare myself, but it kills me inside to think about it..
Fyre, I am in your shoes, fighting the same fire you're fighting, for over a year now. This is a good place to be. There are a lot of really fine people who will give you a shot in the arm when you need it.
I was in the Air Force, flew bombers for 20 years. Like you, did a lot of stuff that scared the hell out of me...but did it anyway. And like you, there has probably been a time or two when you thought you were dead meat. These experiences will give you the feeling that you're a pretty tough guy and you should be able to fix this whole relationship thing right quick.
And you are a pretty tough guy, but I can tell you from experience that this will be the most patience-trying, emotionally-scarring, gut-wrenching, tear-jerking, sorrow and pain-filled hell-on-earth you will ever experience. And it will seem to last f*cking forever. And you can't "fix it". She has to go through it on her own.
My W is doing or has done everything your W is doing. She's still in the middle of an EA, and has probably had a PA. She has rewritten our marriage history. I have gone for months without sex or even the slightest displays of physical affection...and my wife was a real tiger in the sack. And knowing that she has probably been like that with another guy has caused me exquisite emotional pain.
I have cried a lot (in private). Still do. I have felt like I was losing my mind. I have felt loneliness so deep and awful that I laid crumpled on the floor, sobbing like a baby.
Like you, this started with the empty nest...and then her mother died. I did everything wrong. I cried in front of her, begged, pleaded, had long talks about the relationship...etc., etc. Then I came here. The people here are amazing in their grace and wisdom. Some of them have been through this and have outstanding advice. Some of us, like me, are feeling what you're feeling, and will be here to do nothing more than to tell you we know how bad it hurts.
So on top of all the things you've been told already, let me add a few I've learned:
1. Go ahead and cry. Just do it in private, or on the shoulder of a good buddy. Crying is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign that you're human.
2. Make this your mantra: "No matter what happens, I will make it." Say this over and over until you believe it.
3. Go back to when you guys were just dating. Be that guy. That's who she fell in love with.
4. Drop the money and talk to a DB coach. Just do it. I ALWAYS felt better after talking to my coach.
5. And finally, try to detach and develop a sense of perspective. It's hard as a b*tch to do, but keep trying. I had a funny conversation with my doctor awhile back that illustrates the epitome of detachment. I was in the office for a bad cold, and he saw that I had started anti-depressants.
Doc: So what are you depressed about? Me: Wife's having an MLC...having a tough time coping. Doc: How long you been married? Me: 23 years. Kids are grown and out of the house. Doc: OK...so, you have any happy memories of those 23 years. Me: Oh yeah...absolutely. Doc: Are the kids happy and healthy? Me: Absolutely. Doc: OK...then screw her if she's being a pain in the ass. Dump her and go find yourself a hot 25 year old!
Allright...easier said than done...but it made me laugh.
Hang in there buddy.
Bomb
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
Yea that sounds alot like me, I have begged, pleaded, talked, listened, cried, pretty much everything you described.
If I hadn't found this site I am not sure where I would be right now. I have taken some great advice from this board and from the book I have been reading.
This is still all pretty fresh for me, but I am trying to fight off the backslides and become stronger.
Yea I have a brother that is very similar to your Doc. Pretty much had the same conversation with him.
w called and said that the om's wife found out her husband and w have been talking. Went to w's employer and said that she did not want w to have anything to do with her daughter. Bosses called her in and according to w just laughed it off, I doubt that very seriously.
W kept saying that this woman is crazy and this is just small town bs, but that if this woman keeps it up she will have to take further measures against her, I assume legal as w wouldn't do anything physical.
She just called me to tell me before I heard it somewhere else.
Funny how she turns this around to be someone else's fault...
Fyre, sorry to hear about your situation. You are not alone! We're all here pulling for you.
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Tough weekend, this was my first full weekend seperated from W.
Good for you, you made it. You watched the superbowl. you had some fun. Come on, you can do this. Be strong, Fyremn.
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She comes by sat night and we talk, she tells me she has been talking with another man, nothing is going on but they are just talking and she wanted to let me know. I didn't handle it well, set back # 475 and counting..
Sorry this was a setback for you. What I have done when this happened to me, when I reacted in a way that I saw, later, was not so good... Rather than go back and re-hash it with her, I just apologize quietly, not make a big deal of it. Then, by myself, quietly, I think about how I could have handled it differently. Alternative approaches I could have tried, and how the outcome might have been different. I use it as a case study to learn from. I even rehearse it in my head. I imagine the scene unfolding in a different way, with me reacting in a calmer way, a better way. I try to get really visual with these scenes. When I was a competitive swimmer, I used to use this - visualize myself swimming the race I wanted to swim, from the start, to the turns, to the breaths, everything, the more detailed the better. Even down to the goal time on the clock. This helped me realize my goal in swimming. I use something like this in imagining discussions with my wife.
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We talked again on Sunday, she called.. I dropped off my dog before going to a Superbowl party, we talked some more, actually had a good talk on Sunday. But she is driving me nuts with the revisionist history of our marriage. I had to hear about how romantic her friends husband is towards his wife, which is complete BS because I know them both and they have their problems also. And why we never did anything romantic or fun..
Glad to hear you are talking.
couple things. You will see the advice on this forum on relationship talk as "no R talk". This isn't quite true - it really is, "don't initiate R talk."
Second, if she wants to talk, good for you! Your job is to listen. Listen, empathize, really understand her point of view. Look for ways to NOT argue. If she says your marriage was complete sh!t, then find a way to empathize. "Oh, that's horrible, it must have been terrible for you. I wouldn't have been able to stand it if I felt that way!" Don't look to avoid responsibility. Don't say "it wasn't my fault." a phrase like "I had no idea!" could go either way - empathetic yes, but also could be construed as ducking responsibility. so be careful.
Maintain your honesty and integrity without spoiling for a fight. Everyone here, and I mean everyone, hears the same revisionist history stuff. It's painful to hear but it is where she is at the moment. Don't try to persuade her she is wrong, seeing things incorrectly, has clouded thinking, etc. (Yes, I did this.)
Sometimes now, when my W would accuse me of some hurtful action, rather than disagree directly, I would say, "what I remember is..." and then I would repeat what I remembered. This happened several times recently where she recalled me making threats to her, serious threats about taking the children away from her, denying her custody, and so on. And I said "what I remember from the conversation is this: ..." and I would make clear that I had no intention to make that threat and I regret that she felt I was threatening her, and I am sorry for all of that.
In another case she remembers me "Waving a knife at her". In actuality, what happened was, I took a knife from the block and put it on the counter and said "here, why don't you just stab me?!" (good DBing, huh?) This was the 3nd day after I found out about her affair and things were pretty charged and she was still secretly calling the man. This was before I learned about DB, and I was acting from a place of hurt. Anyway.... Well now you see, that incident has evolved into me threatening her with a knife. And so I apologize for it. I have apologized 30 times for it, and I keep doing so, because she keeps reviving it as "waving a knife at her." When I apologize, I reframe it to what I remember, without saying "here's how I remember it" which feels to me like too much disagreement. I say "I am sorry for ever touching that knife, when I told you I felt like I was being stabbed. That was scary and over-theatrical and I regret it."
And in some cases, she remembers things that I just don't want to disagree on. she remembers that I kept her from her family and friends. I have no idea how to refute this quietly, so I just empathize. The best idea I could come up with was to challenge her, "Exactly HOW did I keep you from your friends and family?" but that seems pretty provocative, so I just skip it. There's no action of mine behind her accusation, it's just an expression of pain within her.
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Woke up this morning just plain lonely and tired. This life really sucks right now. Think I am going to call and go see a counselor and see what they can do to help..
Yes it does suck for you. I know it.
Dude, can you take some time for yourself and do something that makes you smile today? And then maybe after that, can you take some time to be thoughtful about how to be more solid for your W in those situations? can you "review the game tape" and think about how you might better handle things if something similar comes up again? She wants a man who is strong and resilient and wise and confident. Regardless of what she says now, that is what she truly wants. That is what she is attracted to, long term. If that's so, then you want to get yourself to that place of confidence and strength.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Thanks sirprize, I appreciate your input. Sorry to hear about your situation.
I am amazed at times how history changes, but mostly I just shake my head (in agreement) and say nothing. I know the truth.
I do no initiate the R talks, I have learned that, it has to come from her. I don't call her unless it's something urgent and I explained to her that it wasn't because I was mad or didn't want to talk, I was just giving her space.
And in all honesty as bomb suggested I am trying to just detach and get some perspective. As I posted above, she is having problems with her life right now and I think detaching is the only option I have.
I have a meeting tonight but they are usually fun, and since my Giants won last night I will have a a lot of fun giving the other guys a hard time...
Fyre, Glad to hear you're going out for some fun. Building your circle of friends helps right now, especially with guys. If you console in them, which is a good thing, be careful about the advice they give you back. Your friends don't like to see you suffer, and they will want to see you removed from the pain. I've had friends suggest things like confrontation, separation, even divorce...things that would have been totally counter to my goals and would have made my sitch worse.
And about the detach thing...I'm finding it REALLY hard to do. This is a woman you've loved for 20 years. "Dropping the rope" ain't gonna be easy. In my case, I think fear is the biggest problem. Fear of loneliness, fear of the loss of the marriage, fear that I'll never find love again.
Fear that I'll die alone.
Maybe Jack can weigh in here, but my guess is, once I get past my fear, I'll be able to detach, do a better job of GAL, etc., etc. But right now, fear consumes way too much of my life.
Last...I wanted to caution you about spending too much time on these boards. Although they're a great source of advice and support, there is a LOT of pain here...you can see it and feel it in the words people write, and it can really, really bring you down. Lots of times I've found myself reading a thread and I'll just start crying. So watch that, okay?
Hang in there friend. I'm with ya every step...
Bomb
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
As for detaching, yesterday w called about some problem at work, as I posted above, when I got off the phone I was upset and then it just kinda hit me. How sad and lost she is. I realized after talking with her, she sounded like a lost little teenager, blaming her problems on everyone else, talking about how if the woman keeps it up she will have to do something, I should have asked her if she was going wait until recess and then pull her hair out by the teeter-totter..
Detaching became easier after that realization..
My friends are really good, mostly they just tell me that if I need anything they are there..
As for you my friend, I am truly sorry for your fears (similar to mine actually) but I think deep down you know, as do I, that if this whole thing goes south there will be other loves and a whole new life that we can choose to enjoy..
