Priorities and tests of strength

[fearless]

At this point I'll just ask...do you believe women who say they just want to meet a nice guy? If not, are they being dishonest or ???

Well most of the women I personally know that want to meet a nice guy really want to meet a nice guy. The problem that many men have is that they are the "Covert contract" nice guys which in reality is NOT a nice guy. I think you can be a nice guy (i.e. honest, polite and caring) and still be a Dieda type man - true to yourself, not needing propping up from a woman, able to do your own thing, having your own sense of self, etc.

So yes I think the women are being truthful. It is just that some men misinterpret the Nice Guy definition. (Of course this is a general statement because yes I understand there are screwed up women that whine about wanting a nice guy and yet date the felon/drug addict/abuser/etc. but that is another issue.)

Now we're getting to it. These are the things Brian said that made it clear to me: (repost of Brian's posts)

Exactly, you keep quoting back to us BRIAN's account of how he felt and what he went through. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing whether Mrs. Brian was aware of this. IF his MIL was recovering at home, she would have been all alone while Brian was back in a hospital setting with what Mrs. Brian MIGHT have assumed was a relapse of the EXACT same issue he had before.

I'm quite surprised that people read Brian's first post and came out of it thinking this was some type of 50/50 situation.

For me,I'm not thinking that his wife saw it as a 50/50 situation. I think there is a distinct possibility that Mrs. Brian MIGHT have believed that her mother was in far worse shape than Brian and needed her more.

What did I say that makes you think I would expect her to leave her post-op mother for an H with the flu? Please point out where I said anything that resembles "he is to ALWAYS be her priority".

You did not say anything specifically. From previous posts I was getting that impression so I asked you those questions to see what your stance was. So then you do not believe that a spouse has an automatic obligation without further questioning to be by their spouse's side in any type of trouble?

So let me ask...if the elk hunter's wife had actually developed serious, life threatening complications and her H hadn't been there because he was off hunting, would that change your opinion of the sitch? Would it change the opinion of any of the other women you've discussed it with who didn't have a problem with it?

My opinion of the situation is that the husband made a stupid choice. It was stupid whether there was a complication or not. The difference is that she asked him directly not to go and he still went. Brian's wife was not given that clear choice.

What is interesting is that the wife in my example was ANGRY at her H for not listening to her and missing the birth of their daughter but she was not viewing this as a make or break issue for their marriage. She clearly felt and expressed her feelings.

My overall point is that many of these "make or break" points only come when the marriage has other serious problems SO to me the issue Brian had was more about the other problems and not really about this specific incident. if Brian did not think of his wife as selfish and self centered and did not feel unloved, I am not sure this specific incident would be an issue. Even if he did feel upset by her choice. IMHO.

My therapist/MC seriously wondered why I did not consider leaving my XH for his behavior with other women AND his disregard of my requests and feelings in those situations. To me that was easy, the rest of our life was pretty darn good and while the behavior was annoying, frustrating, and hurtful, to me it did not represent the rest of our marriage. And I suppose on top of it, I somewhat understood that his behavior was more about his own issues than about me or our marriage. (In other words, he was not flirting with women because I lacked anything but because he lacked something within himself. XH's own diagnosis by the way.)