with strength and hope4

[short1]

Oh yeah. It slide down onto the road. It took months to break it up. And of course, only in Topanga, the land that time forgot (at least since 1968) people came out to protest. Save the Rock!! LOL.. The rock made headlines around the world.

Then they sold pieces at the local store.

[Virtually_Handsome]

uh, short, there's a rock in the road! When was that?

[short1]

In 2005 when we had the big rains. It rolled down the hill and sat there.

This year, a few week again we had another one. It was much smaller and crushed a car. (no one hurt) They called it the chiquita rock.

[Rollercoasterider]

Short1,

My hardest issue. Not the marriage back, but that he has what it takes..which being honest..is really am I worthy of him? ...I am strong for sure, but it is the strength of endurance, not the strength of self confidence.

That is helpful to understand and insightful that you recongize your type of strength.
So you know where you need to work and grow.
Now that you know, what is your plan of action for that?

When have you had self-confidence? What have the conditions been, what were you doing, what were others doing? What external and internal conditions help you believe in yourself?

What do you need to do to become self-confident?

I'm not asking rhetorical questions. Answer them here, to yourself or with your therapist.

Most of my doubt about my H comes from my childhood. My parents were drunk all the time. Their actions made no sense. ...My parents never got better, only worse. ...So when I woke up to my H acting crazy..it was very hard for me to believe he would/could stop.

That explains it. What can you do to change it?

You cannot change your husband.
You cannot make him get better.
You cannot force him to grow.
You could not fix your parents either.

Do you harbour blame for your parents?

Maybe having Faith in a positive outcome is having Faith that God is handling the outcome and whatever happens has positive aspects. God will facilitate your husband's healing in His and his time, which may differ greatly from your time.
But that healing may not be what you want it to be. We don't get to dictate the healing or the fix.

He feels anything and everything I ever did is worthless.

I think this is my projection. I feel worthless.

Interesting, and good that you recognize this.

I can tell you that you are not worthless--you aren't.
But that seems a bit empty. You seem strong, bright, curious, willing to learn and grow, caring etc. But you need to find your worth rather than read empty words.

So how do you measure worth?
Maybe your measurement standards are faulty. Such as measuring worth only through financial status.
Or perhaps how you are figureing the data improperly? You forgot to figure in something.

What do you need to do to feel worthy?
To feel worthy as you are now AND to become worthy?

Maybe you are just fooling us and you are a junkie who kills cats, belittles children and cheats the eldery out of their retirement.
And if that is the case, what can you do to make yourself worthy--in your own eyes?

I don't have an answer, this is your journey.

I am not sure how to validate a feeling about something that is not true. Yes it was true for him, he felt it. But the fact was the business was fine. So how do you validate a feeling that is based on false data...like a spreadsheet. I would say I know he feels this..lets look at the numbers and see if the feeling is sound or just fear. If sound, we could address it. Now I wonder if I should have asked...what would help put your mind at ease?

See? You've got the answers!

How would your outlook be if instead you made the automatic assumption that he will grow and thus he will exit the MLC tunnel rather than becoming stuck.

I would relax.

Okay, good. Now add positive assumptions and affirmations about your Self. Believe in both of you.

I lose faith in myself and my goals. I get a lot of pressure and cave. I think I have to stop talking to anyone about anything.

Faith and Belief in yourself is a main issue--Self-confidence will come from those.
as for discussing your situation with others...for some stopping is a good choice. If you are unable to withstand the pressure, stop. But your goal is to find that Faith, belief and confidence so that what others think and want wll not matter. Do what you want because it is what you feel will be best for you.
Self-respect is more important than respect of others. It's nice to have the latter, but not if it comes at the expense of the former.

but you stated earlier that you think reality is what happens.. actions, behavior, things that can be observed by everyone. That seems a staunch Left-Brained statement to me.

No not really..I am much more right brain.
...my childhood was something I endured by holding on to the external. Attaching to the solid world gave me stability. My parents reinvented reality moment to moment and all of it scary. When you grow up with this you either retreat into your own world (my H) or grab on the only thing not in flux..the solid world.(me) It is about staying sane in an insane environment.

You seem in touch with you Right-Brain, it was just that the comment seemed out of place for that. But you also seem balanced.
Your explanation makes your intial comment understandable.

Yes, I can [walk the tightrope]. Will I? I don't don't know right now. Mostly I think I need a break from thinking about it.

Yes, take a break; a long one. No Contact was one of my favourite boundaries. But Drop-Ins, especially clingy ones, will push those boundaries and try to have contact. Part of the tightrope is balancing the contact.
No picnic outings, but it may be necessary to get together to complete your taxes...

Yes, you need to Let him do it. But if YOU file, aren't you being a little to active in the process?

Too late. I filed for divorce in May 07
...I have also decided to let him guide any divorce stuff. I will continue to protect what we have and that's it. let him do the work. I will respond as needed.

I knew you filed, but this last comment is what I meant. Be passive in the legal process.

You're doing fine. You impressed me from the beginning with how well you were handling this. Just trust your Self.

Remember that book you recommended back in December, Passionate Marriage? It is an excellent resource. It isn't just about sex, the main themes is about finding Self and Strength, he just mingles that with sex.

The MLCer's journey is al about him. That's why we say don't take the various antics personally.

But your journey is all about you. Finding your Self and Embracing your Self. You're already doing a great job. No Contact will help with that focus.

HUGS,
RCR

[short1]

So how do you measure worth?

Here in lies the problem. For most of my life worth has been determined by worth to others..you know the over responsible, fixer, rescuer. Typical of children of alcoholics. When I was younger I left home and never returned. I finally was able to put up and keep boundaries with my parents as it was best for me. It never felt comfortable. At that point in life my self worth was slowly growing. Then I met my H.

For many years things were good..but the trap was there. The wife who would do anything to please and the H who wanted always to be the center of the universe. Talk about exhausting. For me. Basically I felt used up. And I was.

Since he has been gone I have bounced back big time. But I notice when he comes back into my life I start to weaken.

Okay this time no more falling in the hole...take another street. My gaol in this, as in the book you mentioned, is to hold onto me when dealing with my H or anyone else for that matter.

Do you harbour blame for your parents?

No, not at this point in life. But the experience set up patterns in me that have taken a long time to change. The patterns get in when you are so young they become part of you. They become normal. The habit of pleasing others and denying self is one. Seeing yourself as worthless is another. And yes knowing we can not change others is there. Certainly as a child you are powerless to do anything, but worse than that you actually are dependent on your parents. So the pattern is one of thing if I change me to suite them I will survive another day. So changing me is not one of self care but to please others. In a sense self ruin.

As a adult I have had to relearn and in some cases learn for the first time things I should have learn as a kid. Things like trust, self worth, boundaries, etc. Its like starting life out in the red.

Maybe you are just fooling us and you are a junkie who kills cats, belittles children and cheats the eldery out of their retirement.
And if that is the case, what can you do to make yourself worthy--in your own eyes?

aaa no. The trick for me is self worth, not other worth. Today after 4 days of NC I feel much better. My cats love me, BTW.

Faith and Belief in yourself is a main issue-

Yes. The real blessing in this is finding myself again and my faith. What happens with my marriage is slowly becoming less the issue. Odd as that sounds all this may be a release for me.

But your journey is all about you. Finding your Self and Embracing your Self. You're already doing a great job.

Yes and gosh thanks. The pattern I now see is too much H = less me. I need to build myself up to a place of real strength, inner strength that feels comfortable to me not there just for others.

Believe it or not in general I feel better than I have in years. I have my days of falling down..but the general, overall direction is up.

[Tipper]

Short1,
You sound like you are doing well and are at peace with yourself. I am weirdly enough starting to feel that same way in some sense. It is very depressing going through these situations we are all faced with here. But to me, it is truely a miracle to feel like I can be myself again, and not some one who is constantly walking on egg shells around my H.
I also felt like I have always done every thing to please my H and he was always so controlling, and had a terrible temper when things didn't go his way. Now I am just feeling sorry for him more and more. But I am happy to be relearning my true self.
When my H left me the second time around - the first thing I started to say to people was that it somehow had felt like a bit of a relief (as cruel as that sounds), I feel like when I look back on things he was just so mean to me and uncaring in so many ways it actually is embarrasing to me that I just kept putting up with it. I am learning to respect myself again and stand up for myself with out worriing about what others will think and feel.
Thanks for listening,
TIPPER

[TRUSTING]

Short,

I am so impressed by you. You are very introspective in a short period of time. No pun intended.

You are truly DBing and working on "you" issues.

No contact has also done wonders for me in this journey. It helped me get a perspective on reality, something I had not had in a long time due to living with a MLC'er for a while.

I have a feeling your growth will be hugh.

[TRUSTING]

I mean huge.

[short1]

I liked the hugh.

Yes, the NC helps. It has come to light in all this that my H has been dishonest for a long time, something I knew and lived with. That dishonesty did a real number on me. Gaslighting takes it toll. The dishonesty ate away at our marriage for years and only got worse. Can my H get back to a place where he sees that being honest and taking responsibility for ones own actions and feelings is the only way to have a relationship..any relationship even friendship..I don't know.

What I do know is I stood by as I saw it happen. I could not change it, as dishonesty is a person decision. But I knew it was happening and put up with it. No more. The boundary I have drawn is no more dishonesty. I can no longer listen to lies or take blame/responsibility for someone else's behavior. It destroyed my sense of self respect (worth) and my trust in my self.

As they say in AA, my life became unmanageable. To deal with dishonesty day in and day out erodes all communication and ultimately erodes intimacy. It colors everything. My H is now with another woman who has the same values. Who takes no responsibility for her action (as seen in her email to me) and is willing to lie to get her needs met. They are partners in crime.
I wish them luck with that..doesn't work for me.

[Cinderellaman]

Short,

I follow your posts, because you are so strong and have such a clear view on things...you even have a (kind-of) alike MLC'er to deal with...yet you have more strength than I do !

I missed that email you say ow sent to you.....what the heck did she have to say to you ?