Priorities and tests of strength

[fearless]

But if the roles were reversed, I'm not buying that anyone would give a fig that the wife didn't explicitly tell her H to come home to her.

Burg, There seem to be two different issues you have with those that have ANY compassion for Brian's wife's dilemma.

First you clearly seem to believe that the women here are either dishonest or ??? when they say that whether Brian was a man or woman they would have the same opinion of how the spouse acted. Is this the correct interpretation? If so, there is not much to say to that. You are entitled to believe we are lying to you or ourselves.

Second you seem to take issue with the idea that a spouse would not be a 100% priority 100% of the time in 100% of all situations. Is this correct?

I'm asking because I wonder if you had a chance to read this paragraph.

Fearless - For ME, if I really felt that Raven needed to be by my side, I would call and ASK him to be by my side. If I didn't ask and his parents had asked, then the fact is he would not be making a value judgment as much as meeting what he thinks is the critical priority at the moment. In other words the person who is closest to death and NEEDS the most attention is the one he would prioritize. IF, by chance, his mother and I were exactly equal in needs, then I suppose I would expect he would choose me. BUT if he was not aware of the equal needs, then why would it be surprising that he would choose the person that voiced their needs the clearest.

Specifically what was it that made it clear to you that the wife should "choose" to be with Brian? If her mother was recovering from By-bass surgery and Brian had the flu (after a harrowing previous stay in the hospital), would she still be obligated, in your book, to come home to Brian? What if he felt lonely and just wanted her home, but didn't tell her and thought she should "know"? If he is to ALWAYS be her priority, then she should really never leave his side, right??? And vice versa.

Raven and I have spoken a lot about this and in our cases we would probably have the opposite problem of Brian. If one of us was with an ill parent and the other had an emergency, we would probably be very cautious about wanting the other to come home to us. If we really felt we needed them to come home, we would be very specific about needing them and why. But granted, that is just us. Raven's XW was someone who felt he should always "just know" what she needed and that created a lot of strain in the marriage. Maybe he was insensitive then but he is certainly not now. He actually does a lot without me asking but I consider anything like that a bonus and it's not expected.

To be clear, if Brian told us that he had told his wife he really needed her to come home to him and she didn't come home, I think opinions of her would shift. Also if she was fully made aware of the severity of his changed diagnosis, that might have made a difference also. Yes I completely understand that he may have been incapacitated to the point of not being able to inform her completely. That does not mean it's his fault or her fault. It's just the way it is. She may have made her decision based on prior knowledge and with the knowledge that her MIL was by her H's side so someone would be there to contact her if she did need to get home.

Burgbud:This whole thing puts me in mind of Blackfoot's point that the only reason a man should let his woman see his puppy is to demonstrate that he'll take it back when she kicks it, and kick it she will.

So you are saying that if Brian had told his wife he was possibly going to die and that he wanted her there, THAT would be showing his puppy to her??

Burgbud:This whole thing puts me in mind of Blackfoot's point that the only reason a man should let his woman see his puppy is to demonstrate that he'll take it back when she kicks it, and kick it she will

I'll guess you'll have to ask Raven about that in our case. To me the "only" reasons a man would let a woman see his puppy is to demonstrate trust and strength and to deepen the relationship. To that end if a woman would "kick" the puppy, not only should he take the puppy back but I would think that would end the relationship. I do not think that showing your puppy (sounds dirty!) should be a game to be played to test a woman or relationship.

I told you Blackfoot's a genius.

I have no problem with Blackfoot and his philosophies. I think his philosophies serve him with the lifestyle and goals he has. However I would be leery about stretching his philosophies to working well within a loving committed relationship. I think he's made it clear he has no desire for a committed relationship. Which I happen to find understandable and I think his philosophies serve him well in that endeavor. Showing a woman your vulnerability if you have no intention of developing a deep relationship is not a good idea. I would also say that showing your puppy to test a woman is not a good idea either.

Raven in his first marriage did not share his "puppy" with his wife. She did mention to him that she did not feel like he shared himself with her (and he did not) Who knows whether that would have made a difference in their marriage. I am not sure because I do not know whether she does have the compassion to deal with those issues (sadly for her I am not sure she handles her own issues with compassion.) I do know that Raven's ability to open up with me and share his vulnerabilities is a large part of how our relationship deepened. A big part is that he was able to just open up without expectations. It freed me to just be able to accept his vulnerability without feeling as if I had to somehow fix it for him or "make" him feel okay. And oddly enough that my acceptance seemed enough, I think. I know Raven is absolutely man enough to handle his issues. It did feel good to be trusted to know what we all know in general anyway – everyone has issues.

(Fearless) What about my true story of a man who went Elk hunting against his wife's wishes with the birth of their baby impending?

Burgbud - Not analogous. Why such a reach?

It does not seem like a reach other than H took a totally fun, frivolous unneeded vacation (versus meeting a family member's need) specifically against her wishes when his wife was getting ready to enter the hospital. And children and women have died in childbirth so I am not sure why you view it as a stretch???

Oh or don't you believe that childbirth is a serious matter that a wife should be able to expect her H to attend with her??