Maybe say "I've learned the only person that can make me happy is myself and I can't let my ... " blah blah. Perhaps, add something as to making positive choices like no games, internet, etc...but I think that makes it too long and WAW might already know it.
jmw, this approach comes across to me as pleading, pursuing and needy. Don't do it and don't initiate talks about the R/M; if she does then validate her feelings. If you are happier and capable of doing without her and the internet so much the better whether she sees it or not.
Why do you have to supply her with D5's clothes for Church, etc? When my W moved out I divided all the kids clothes equitably and after that anything I buy for them stays at my place, wrinkles and all.
If you have to meet her about something or to just chat try to do it at a cafe or some neutral place when D5 is at school or something; that way if she tries to corner you on the legal stuff or if you just need to go you can make some excuse and leave. I'm not sure about this but I'd say try it.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
You are probably right. I've heard the card idea before but saying to much will be pleading, pursuing, and needy. Maybe send it with much less said. This week, for some odd reason, has been more difficult. I just feel like or wish I could do something. It just seems that I have to do something to be able to move into a stage where we can rebuild our friendship and then R/M. I just need to build upon her loss of anger, friendliness, sweetness, lingering, extending conversations over the last 1.5 months. I guess 'dimness' is the way to go.
Well, for the next 4 weeks 5D will be at WAW's house on Sunday's. It's actually a 180 for me because we, as a family, did not go to church regularly prior to separation. Oddly, we all go to different churches now. Anyhow, WAW does not have church clothes for these days for 5D. When we separated, she offered to let me take 5D to church, my day or not, because she sees 5D and I enjoy the time together. I am supplying the clothes for 5D but it does show WAW that I am taking care of things and doing things that I would not do in the past. More 180. I am doing it for myself but WAW will notice. It also avoids unnecessary communication.
Also, I think it is necessary to point I was told to leave 4.5 months ago, even though she is the WAW. So, I do not have 1/2 of near everything.
I will not meet her in a neutral place for a long while anymore. I am not going to set myself up for her to strengthen her resolve to end things. The last neutral site meeting was suppose to be to talk about 5D school, tuition, upcoming school events, and set Feb schedule, while 5D played. But she brought up lawyer and stuff before done with 5D talks. Not my choice and not the purpose.
I had the idea for sending a card based on my WAW's statement last Saturday of "see you are happier without me and thus we are better off apart."
After rereading bf2's post several times, I am now considering, in 2 weeks, which would be 3 in total, sending a simpler card stating I am happy now, but not because you aren't with me.
I agree with you fb2. Specifically listing any reasons why I am happier now will be pursuing, needy, or if nothing else trying to convince WAW. Doing anything at all may still be pursuing, needy, etc, but that doing nothing is also more of the same. I am looking to do something different.
I had the idea for sending a card based on my WAW's statement last Saturday of "see you are happier without me and thus we are better off apart."
Strange I got almost the exact quote from my W about a couple of weeks ago that I was more relaxed without her. And in the next breath she attempted to attack on the legal front. I'm not sure if this behavior makes her feel less guilty for what she did or is a way to deny that you have changed for the love of her. At any rate I feel from what others have advised me that its best that W sense the truth for herself instead of you telling her explicitly.
Also I understand how it feels to be in your position where the anger is down, communication has improved but is still up and down and you don't know where to turn next. I'm in the same boat and I don't want to rock it too much. Except it feels like my boat is a big one out on the deep blue sea.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
Hmmmm....I'm sure there are things you can do that are "different" besides sending her that card or any card for that matter. It's far too early to do this.
From my perspective, if I was to say that to you, with my head sort of hanging, I would only be saying it because I was feeling so damn bad about you being gone.
Now is she would have said it in a happy bouncy mode and gave you a great big hug, then I would have truly meant it.
Why don't you just let the card issue sit on the sidelines for awhile. There is plenty of time to do that. You will know when the time is right. Now is not it. She apparently is starting to "miss you", and she needs to "miss you" longer, or else she will find out how easy it would be and no, this is not as easy as she is finding out.
Hugs dude!
Jeanette
Change the Policy. Allow PM's Free all of us.
Also some new and improved emoticons would be nice!
From my perspective, if I was to say that to you, with my head sort of hanging, I would only be saying it because I was feeling so damn bad about you being gone.
That's a very interesting insight. And I think you are very right about needing to "miss you" longer. Thank you so much for giving me this perspective. I thought it might be a way of throwing guilt back on me.
My latest routine of dropping 5D off at WAW by letting 5D knock on the door, waiting for WAW to answer, and be in my truck driving away as door opens might help this "miss you" concept. I've done this Monday, Saturday, and Sunday as of late. If nothing else, I don't get sucked into some twisted game looking for hope in-between everything said and done.
Picked up 5D for church this morning...WAW and 5D were next door at her grandmother's. It would've been nice to known that while I waited 10 minutes for them. Anyhow, invited in house, and 5D showed me stuff then WAW continued getting 5D ready. When 5D came out I was still playing with the dog and even put the dog toy in my mouth. 5D really laughed about it. 5D and WAW made a comment like gross. I was having a good time. Then WAW turned walking to end of the house, "bye" in a sort of irritated way. I had already asked 5D is she ready so this was kind of a silly show on WAW's part. Whatever. No telling why she was kind of irritated, maybe just because I was in such a care-free, happy mood.
BTW, Her house is still an absolute wreck. Think she is down and depressed. I did notice a bulletin board in WAW bedroom with her name on it with index cards of one word qualities of her. Like mother, etc...I have no idea what that's all about. Probably a reflection of her confusion.
Took 5D to chinese restraunt after church. We had fun. WAW knows I hate chinese but I am trying new things. 5D wanted to give WAW her fortune. It said something like, "when you are down reach out to an old friend." WAW lost a lot of friends over this so it's ironic if nothing else. And I get the bonus that 5D shows WAW another 180 for me. I would have never gone before.
I feel like my WAW stuck her head out the castle walls about 1-2weeks ago to check out the picnic but got spooked and closed the curtains...lmao...
Ok, agree that I should hold off on card...what thing different can I do. Driving off when I drop off 5D knocked the anger out of her before so...Can't hurt I suppose. I guess more "darkness" and time.
this is just way to long a post...thanks for reading...
Once again, thanks bf2 and jeanette1120 for you posts...it really helped me get my head on straight for the past few days.
I do think WAW took a peek out of the castle but ran back inside before I got a clue.
Reflecting on changes in sitch over last month or so...
Positives - she is not angry, nor that screaming/yelling thing she did, friendlier, cordial, and allows me in her house.
No change - Communication is minimal and that's stretching it.
Undecided - WAW seems down/depressed. Her bulletin board with an index card for each letter of her name with a quality of hers is an example. Also, losing friends and no money add to her life not going as planned...I guess that's a bit positive.
Recent Revelation - she told me about 3 weeks ago, that she thought I had a chance when we first separated. Which tells me it really has nothing to do with anything prior to separation. It is really about her. Thus, no need to say anything about past ever, unless she brings it up.
Current Plan - 1) Maintain "structured darkness" plan, 2) Find more things to do different
First Do different - Pick-up 5D everyday from school when WAW is unable and drop-off to WAW's when she is off work. WAW was getting MIL to pick-up. It'll be interesting WAW reaction. I just put it on the schedule that I was doing it. I asked 2 months ago but allowed WAW to do as she wanted trying to be just agreeable...which probably just showed a weak doormat.
Well, apparently something worked because WAW called around 5:00 to tell me all about her stressful day and how hectic her week was going to be. She specifically said, "I know you are not interested in that." I replied, "it sounds interesting (pause), more interesting then me doing(something similar)." I then offered to fix 5D dinner, do hw, and get 5D bathed and then take to her house if she would like it. This was her day with 5D to begin with but I picked up from school. She said she would like that. At the end of the call, she reiterated her how busy she was and I said I wish there was something I could do to help. She said I'll call you when I get done and I replied, "the first thing I can do to help you out is to get off this phone and let you get back it." We both then said Talk to you later.
almost 3 hours later she calls and offers to pick-up 5D. I said It's not a problem for me to take 5D to your house because I have to go up to town anyhow. Then I overtalked about 5D hw and a test she had taken. Said I hope she had gotten everything she needed done, she said no, I just left it. Then we said see you in 30 minutes.
Drop-off was brief. WAW was in yard. I got 5D out of truck got hugs and kisses, told her I enjoyed rollerskating and playing in the park. She laughed and then got excited about her dance class tomorrow. Thought it odd WAW then asked if I was keeping 5D tomorrow night. Just shows her confusion. Can't even keep up with 5D schedule.
I'd like some help with establishing some new GOALS for my period of "structured darkness". I was thinking...
1) Continue to not contact WAW unless for pick-up for 5D. For drop-offs I will drive off as 5D walks in the house or walk 5D to the door and leave very promptly. 2) When WAW contacts me, I will listen, validate, and understand, her feelings, day, whatever. 3) When WAW contacts me, I will avoid talking about me and maintain the focus of the conversation on topics WAW brings up. 4) End all communications first. 5) Leave WAW's house promptly when picking-up 5D. This will occur every Sunday for awhile so this is important. I want to avoid overstaying my welcome or any awkwardness. Note: 5D is rarely ready on time. So, this can be an issue. 6) Continue to do for 5D by showing her a great life, by taking her places, doing things, simply showing her love by spending quality time together. 7) Keep any communications short to maintain positive aspects of the conversation and not have it twist into D talk or other negative R/M talk - not a lot I can do if she brings it up quickly but this is not her pattern 8) Do not initiate any meetings 9) Continue journal of WAW, continue journal of 5D, maintain a calendar with the sole purpose of notating when contact is made. 10) Show a very happy new man when in WAW prescence, specifically when picking-up 5D Sundays.
Desires - of course reconcile but need small steps first 1) I want to reestablish some meaningful communication with WAW. 2) Increase duration and frequency of meaningful communication with WAW. 3) Discover a mode and time for communication when darkness ends. 4) Avoid opportunities for WAW to bring up negative topics such as lawyer, done, no chance...blah blah 5) Rebuild our friendship - way to soon I guess. 6) Learn when to break "structured darkness".
Having said all of that, I'd like some feedback on if these goals are good, measuring of those goals, any additional goals, and how do these goals increase my number one desire of reestablishing meaningful communication with WAW. I guess I am stuggling with the idea of wanting more communication knowing I cannot/should not now and if these goals will provide an opportunity for it.
It has been about 2 weeks since WAW has mentioned, with her head turned to the side, when am I am going to sign her D papers. In my state, she cannot get a no-fault/irreconcilable differences D. Since she has no grounds for fault, she is stuck.
Having said that, she will bring it up again one day. And I need a response. I have three options.
1) To validate her and to say that I am not done but still working on it. I do not want this D and so working on our doom is counter-intuitive. Also, the main thing we will dispute is 5D. Otherwise, nothing else to quibble over.
2) To prepare my thoughts or send e-mail in a period of time, stating that I understand her feelings, I've researched it, the legal aspects, religious aspects, and basically say I take my vows very serioiusly and cannot work toward something I do not agree with. Maybe I was a bad husband for a long time but I do not believe we have any problems that are insurmountable. Thank her for opening my eyes, etc...After this exchange, I would then go dark again. The difference would be that any positive communication thereafter can be really thought of as a true positive toward reconciliation as opposed to me just hoping like I do now.
3) Continue to stay dark hope to avoid the topic. This just seems a bit unreasonable and passive.
I like option 1 for it's simplicity but it is passive and drags things. I like option 2 because it allows me to be strong and tell my WAW the way I feel. Problem with option 2 is that I still believe everything is about her feelings and so it is probably unreasonable to think that my commitment and beliefs about D would effect her.
Other thoughts, I woke this morning with an inner peace that everything was going to be alright. And I also know, that I have all the time in the world. I just need to have a thought for the next time she brings it up.
