Need Advice!

[elocin777]

Hi Sandi2,

I take everyone's advice and appreciate it no matter how harsh it maybe. Both my sons were away for the 2 weeks and never knew I was in the hospital and yes I was in ICU 2 days in reg hospital for a week and psych for 1 week. They made it seem voluntary but really had no choice. It was the worse week of my life. I knew I made a mistake and really did it for attention. If I really meant to hurt myself, I would not have had my BF on the phone with me while I did it. I will regret it for the rest of my life and pray my children never find out.ANd yes I was being selfish going over to H's at night and realized it maybe too late because S10 would wake up and call me to come home. I was being selfish and luckily I realized that. Both boys do go to our family counselor outside of school. I am not to keen with the school C to begin with but this group seems to be getting him to open up, even our C was not to comfortable with school being involved. I wish I could go dark but I see him just about everyday so how does that work. I melt everytime I see him. He was in my bed this morning, no sex just snuggled for hours. Texted me all night to see what was wrong me me tonight. Do I just ignore it all. That is so hard. Really any advice I will take it. I want my marriage to work and hope and pray everyday it will turn out good. But right now S10 is my main concern, S13 is just very angry but he is also starting those teenage years. I am just so confused but I am hoping that between school, work, and focusing on boys it will occupy most of my time but I still drift to thought of H. Can't help it. I love and miss him. Thanks Sandi2, really I take no offense to any advice -that's why I am here and would love to hear more from you:)
Nicole

[sandi2]

Nicole, Sweetie, I know I am probably old fashion, but to me it seems that your H is eating cake by allowing him to sleep with you or snuggle in the bed with you. Why was he there doing that? As long as you allow him to do that, you will never be able to detach from him. As I see it, until he sees what he is missing......you aren't going to completely have him. I know I'm probably different but IMHO it would be an insult to me for him to treat me like that. You see, in your "need" for him....he is disrespecting you by thinking he can just crawl under the covers and snuggle up to you whenever he feels a little lonesome and doesn't have another woman that night, so you will do for the time being. He has you in his power b/c you said yourself that you "melt" every time you see him. He probably knows this and is taking full advantage of it. I think you need to get angry about that and start having more self respect. He is using you, sweetie! Sure you need his closeness and you want his comfort, etc., but that is not what is happening here. It is only a temporary "fix" and certainly not very satisfying. Just b/c you are legally married to him, don't let him think he can use you .....like, well, you know what.

This man needs a wake-up call and if the seriousness of his S10 has not done it, then I think everything I suggested in the previous post needs to kick in immediately. You need to have some serious boundries with him. No more sharing bedtimes with him.....even if there is no sex involved. No more coming and going as he pleases.......this is your's house your sons' home now.....your H has his own place (it doesn't matter if he is still paying the bills or whatever) for all intended purposes....it is yous and the children's home and not his! You clearly need to set up visitation times for him to see the boys, but do NOT share that time with them. He needs to "miss" his family Nicole. How is he going to do this if you don't force him to do without any of it? You have been doing the opposite and trying to force him back into it.....and it isn't working.

If you want him back for the long haul, then you have got to be strong and have some self respect, girl! Show some spunk! Lay down the rules to him and then let him see you having a life without him. Let him find out how it feels not to have you there at his beck & call.

You need to get very, very serious about detaching from him or you will never have him again. Listen, I know it is killing you.....but isn't it worth the hurt you are going through for a period of time (however long) worth the possibility of having him back as your "real" H for the rest of your life?

He is confused and he says he doesn't know what he wants....blah, blah, blah. Well, you need to help that situation by taking away what he walked away from. You really haven't done any of that. As a father, he still has the right to see his sons and they need him.......but you have the right to say when and where he sees them b/c they are in your home....not his. Stop using the kids as an excuse and a life-line to him. I know you want him involved in S10's problems, but like I told you before.....it is your H's decision as to wheather or not he gets his head out of the sand and steps up to do what he should. Stop hammering him about what he needs to do b/c the more you say to him, the worse it is making things. Stop acting like a nagging wife! Stop acting life a wife.....period. Stop depending on him for emotional support for you and the boys. He isn't ready to do that full time yet, and until he is.....it will just keep you and the boys torn up all the time. You have got to try to find peace and to give those kids a sense of stability. Don't you know that they are smart and can see right through you?

And by the way, if he is supporting you financially......don't let him use that as his ace trump and make you feel like you owe him anything......ok? You don't. He walked away, remember?

You have so much work to do on yourself, plus what you need to be doing for your sons.......that should be enough to keep you busy. You will have to use self discipline like never before when you are tempted to call your H or to go see him. If it isn't an emergency......don't do it! Read the chapter of DR on the LRT, before you tell him about the boundries, so you will know how to talk to him. Practice what you are going to say to him so you will stay calm and not allow him to take control and push any trigger buttons. Just tell him like the book says....you don't have to tell him every detail of what your plans and goals are (don't defeat your purpose here). Then stop contact with him. Detach from him. Go dark. If you don't understand that.....read that part of the book again.

Nicole, this is what it is going to take to get him back. What you have been doing is not working. Remember the story of the cheesless tunnels? Well honey, there is no cheese in those tunnels you've been going down. Do it Michell's way.

I'm glad you responded to me and that I didn't offend you too badly. That is not my goal at all. I want to help you if I can. I don't pretend to be the smartest person in the world, but I have been around a while and I have seen a lot of couples and families fall apart. Before my own crisis hit, I even taught marriage courses at church and would counsel with others. So, it is easier for us to see how to help others than to see our own faults and failures and take the route we need to go. That is why you will see people here on the board that is having a terrible marriage crisis give advice to somebody else. We are all here for one another. You aren't alone Nicole. Whenever you are lonely for your H and you need that closeness.....come here to the board any time of the day or night and just start writing about your feelings or read other threads. That was how I got through a lot of bad nights and temptations. You will get stronger by doing that.

Feel free to talk to me anytime. I am here every evening and sometimes up till midnight reading and writing. Haven't written as much the past couple of weeks......mostly just reading....but I'm here.

Take care sweetie.

Sandi

[AmyC]

Dang, Sandi.
You hit the nail on the head again this morning!!!

Nicole, listen to her.

[elocin777]

I am trying, I really am. I chose to move out of this house because he is not paying my mortgage and did not want kids to be here if sheriff came to door. I am going to school and working part-time. That is why H was here-I have to be a clinincal at 6:30 am and it is an hour away but it got cancelled. He would not get up to get out of bed so yes I take advantage of that. It is so hard not to feel his arms around me. That is why he is around here all the time he watches the kids when I am working or school. They boys were suppose to sleep over his house but they don't like staying there and he'd rather go out to bar and spend money then stock his apt. with food for kids. I am scared if I go dark which I am still not quite sure the difference between the an NC but I will read again, he will forget about me. Kind of "out of site, out of mind"! He has my DR book and won't give it back-I don't know why because he has not read it so I have to get another one. It is hard to GAL when all your friends are married-I am like the plague because we made all our friends together here. I think the new place will be good for all of us, it is further from H's apt and both boys have more friends in that development. I still feel bad for him when I know he is miserable and depressed. So I am just suppose to ignore that and not be there for him? That is so hard! I am hoping with school, work, and the boys-I won't have time to think about H, but I doubt it. Cried lastnight and texted him--I just suck at this. He was my bestfriend and I miss talking to him about everything--how do you just let go? I promise my kids I won't give up and I feel like that is what I will be doing?

[sandi2]

Nicole, you are NOT giving up by using the techniques that have been discribed to you! Just the opposite....you are fighting the fight of your life, Nicole. That is why it is so hard! What you are doing now, is the easy way.....and it is excuses.

That is why H was here-I have to be a clinincal at 6:30 am and it is an hour away but it got cancelled. He would not get up to get out of bed so yes I take advantage of that

Why were you letting him in the same bed with you to start with? What time do you have to leave the house in the mornings? You had no problem leaving the boys alone in the middle of the night to go to H's house to sleep with him, why does he have to be there with them and in bed with you in order for you to get up and leave? What is the difference....or did I misunderstand something? Is he working? If he can be there when he is not working to keep the boys while you are gone....that's great. But if this is an excuse for him to sleep over and to eat your food up while he can use his money to bar hop........that's not good. You know that in your heart, honey....you have got to know that! But you are wanting to "Play House" and it isn't going to work. No wonder the kids are confused. What kind of standards is this teaching them about being a real man, a real H, and a real dad? What do you think it is teaching them about respect for women? Don't you think they will grow up treating their W's just like they see the father treating their mother? Is that what you want?

I am scared if I go dark which I am still not quite sure the difference between the an NC but I will read again, he will forget about me. Kind of "out of site, out of mind"!

First of all, you are allowing your fear to rule your heart. It will not work that way. We are trying to tell you what WILL work, if you will trust Michelle and her team, plus the rest of the people that have been where you are.....and especially those who saw it too late but can see it now, then you have got to get the guts and determination in your spirit to do it if you want to save your marriage! I promise, he might would like to get you and the boys out of his mind and heart (while he's with OW or at a bar), but he won't. However, it won't be b/c he is there all the time.......it will only be b/c he finally wakes up and decides to be a man and do what is right by his wife and kids when he realizes he is loosing what he truly wanted all the time. Oh well, I'm repeating what I've already said before.

I think you are going to have to emotionally detach before you go dark. Going dark is kind of hard to do when you are co-parenting on a daily bases. But, I think there are some place on this webstie that Michelle explain what going dark is all about. However, I would advise you to read about the LRT first. I think it is on here also. And you can certainly draw the boundries and lay down a few rules. Rule #1....when you are there....he's not. He can come 5 minutes before you leave or after you leave.....but not overnight. That would just be my personal starting place.

BTW, does he help with the food bill since he is there and doesn't buy food at his place? Just wondered.

The boys were suppose to sleep over his house but they don't like staying there and he'd rather go out to bar and spend money then stock his apt. with food for kids.

He has my DR book and won't give it back-I don't know why because he has not read it so I have to get another one.

Maybe he has read it and doesn't want you to know what you need to do. He knows he has it made just the way things are now. He can be there when he wants and leave when he wants.

It is hard to GAL when all your friends are married-I am like the plague because we made all our friends together here.

You can make friends with other women, Nicole, they don't have to be married, divorce, single, and you don't need a H to make new friends.......this is another excuse.

I think the new place will be good for all of us,

I hope by "all of us" you mean you and the boys and not including your H in this statement. BTW, please don't let your H start using the excuse that his apartment is too far away to go back home at night. That is just too lame.

I still feel bad for him when I know he is miserable and depressed. So I am just suppose to ignore that and not be there for him? That is so hard!

Yes and yes. Of course you feel bad for him b/c you still love him, but you can't try to be his mother and fix him or heal him. Instead, you have to act as if you don't feel sorry for him. Nicole, for God's sake don't show that man any pity! That is the last thing he needs right now. And why should you? Wasn't this all a result of his choices? He has put himself in this place. What do you mean, "be there for him"? Aren't you suppose to be separated? When you are living as a family .....in every way and in one home.....then you are there for him, but not when he is disrespecting you and sleeping with other women. I'm not fussing at you sweetie.....but you are so mixed up about what your role is and what you need to do and not to do. That is one reason you need to stay away from him.....so you can get your head on straight wheather he does or not! As long as you are under his influence right now.....I don't believe you even think for yourself....hope I'm wrong about that! How can you possibly get involved with making a life for you and the boys and finding new friends and all of that.....he's there all the time screwing up your head!

It is hard, Nicole! The hardest thing you've probably ever had to do. Some day, when your boys are just a little older....you will have to stand back and watch them make their own way in life.....make mistakes that you want to stop or fix for them. When they were little, you could comfort them and kiss the boo-boo away, but when they get older...it doesn't work that way. They won't learn if you always clean up after them, b/c they will keep making the same mistakes if you interfer and try to fix their messes. Life has to be their teacher, Nicole, and as a parent.....you have to stand by and watch. Now, honey, that's hard!

You want to talk about pain? When you see one of your children destroying themselves and ruining their lives, or you see one of them dying with a disease that can't be healed and you cannot do one damn thing about it......then come to me and we will talk about pain. I pray to God, you never have to go through that, but a lot of parents do every day.

So, yes, it is hard, sweetie, very, very hard. If you didn't love him.....it would be so easy to kick him out to the curb and never look back. But right now, you just have to act as if you are tough (even though you don't feel it) and act as if you and the boys are happy and are going to be just fine (even though you are scared to death). You must act as if you can go on the rest of your life without your H ever being a part of it (even though you pray every day that he will).

How can you do it? Well, as a mother with children and grandchildren.....I can tell you that you CAN do it Nicole. You know what I've learned? I have learn that we CAN do a lot of things when we HAVE to. I have learned that I could stand over someone I loved and helplessly watch them die. I have learned that I could live without someone that I thought I would not be able to breathe air without them here with me. But the fact is.......(take a deep breath)....the fact is that you don't WANT to do it Nicole. Life is going to throw a lot of curves your way and you need to get strong. You are in a good place to start that process right now.

You do have support......right here with all of us. We are your friends.........some are soft and tender and then some are a little tougher, but we all want the best for you.....your new friends that you met all on your own. Right? Right!

Try to get some much needed rest. Please, take care of yourself, ok?

I care.

Sandi

[elocin777]

He did not sleep over-he came over at 5:30 when I left but was sleeping when I came back home due to bad weather. He was in my bed because S10 was in my bed sleeping, so he snuggled up with him. No he works, that is part of my dependancy issue, I never worked. He is the sole supporter besides my part time job now, hence the reason for me going back to school. But since he got his apartment his bills and rent come first so that is why are house has gone down the tubes. I really do want to do the right things, I guess I analyze too much and think way too much. Emotionally detaching, that will definitely be a tough one for me. I have never been good at hiding my emotions about anything. Everyone can see right through me. It is so hard for me to comprehend how turning my back on the person I love can bring him closer to me. It just does not sound logical to me. But if I didn't need help I would not be on this board and my H would be home with us, so I agree I do make a lot of excuses. I am just so confused! When I said I think the move will be good for "us", I did mean the boys and I. This house has too many bad memories(never liked it too much either) and the new place is in a development with kids all around(which is what S10 needs). When I read your post back( and believe me I read it over and over) I feel like this spineless, pathetic person. And maybe that is what I do need to hear, who knows. "No wonder the kids are confused. What kind of standards is this teaching them about being a real man, a real H, and a real dad? What do you think it is teaching them about respect for women? Don't you think they will grow up treating their W's just like they see the father treating their mother? Is that what you want?" God this hit hard-I don't want to teach my kids not to respect women and I always felt I was doing a good job of that. Geez Sandi you know how to make someone think and not in a bad way. Please don't think I don't appreciate your advice no matter how hard it may sound because I do. And I have had to deal with a lot of very painful things in my life, some I never thought I would make it through but I did-for some reason this just seems hopeless to me and I guess I am holding on to whatever he will give me. Wow, well I have a lot to think about tonight-Thanks Sandi, I appreciate your words and support more then you know.

Nicole

[Virtually_Handsome]

I can't think of anything to say, Nicole, but I'm thinking of you!

I hope you get some good rest, and have a good day tomorrow!

(((((((((((((((Nicole)))))))))))))))

[sandi2]

Hey Sweetie,

Glad to hear from you. Your last post did clearify how you have always been dependent on him for your income, etc. And, it is hard for a woman to strick out and learn how to support herself and her kids at this point in life, but there are thousands doing it every day.

It is so hard for me to comprehend how turning my back on the person I love can bring him closer to me. It just does not sound logical to me. But if I didn't need help I would not be on this board and my H would be home with us,

I know it is hard for you to understand that, but it has a lot of to do with human nature. If you would go to the library and check out Dr. James Dobson's book on Tough Love, it would explain it so well and you could understand where we are coming from in this technique. We humans tend to want what we think we can't have. When a man is wanting to get away from a woman and he feels that she is clingy and holding on to him tightly, crying and pleading for him not to go, and forgiving him for every nasty thing he does to her and her children.....he just wants to get farther and farther away from her. He does not want this.

It is like the story of the little girl that loved her new dolly so much and slept on top of her that night and the next morning found the doll's face had melted. It was b/c in her love for the doll, she had held her too close and in the end....ruined the doll. So, b/c we do love someone so much, we have to learn to let go and not hold them so tightly. In a case such as yours, it may need to "appear" that you don't care, but of course in your heart you do love him completely. It is for his good......your good....and the good of the kids, to pull away from your H and don't cling to him.

I don't know if it makes sense or not, but we humans are that way. If he thought he could not have you quite so easily and may actually have to get his act together and do a little work to get you back.....I bet he would come running to you. But, he knows he has it made, Nicole. You take crap off him and allow him to keep doing whatever he wants.

I know you love him, but I think I told you to "act as if" it didn't bother you what he did. Even though it does hurt and you do want him back....you have to act "as if you don't care to have him and that you are going to be fine, etc"....in order to get him. Listen, when I was in school, girls didn't chase after the boys the way they do now. Guys didn't want "easy girls" back then (unless it was to have sex), but they wanted the nice girls to be seen with and to marry. So, even though the girl might be dying to have a date with a certain boy, she would play hard to get. It was a matter of self-respect and to let the boy know she wasn't an easy target for just anyone that came along. It made her more valuable to him b/c she wasn't easy. Don't you get it? Anything that is hard for us to acquire is valualbe. Oh she might do some light flirting so she would not completely run him off for good, (after all, she did want to give him a little encouragement...lol), but she didn't act "easy" to have. He had to work for her.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is all the same thing that I'm telling you by acting "as if" you are not so darn "easy" for him and that he will have to work to get you back. All the evidence so far has shown that he hasn't had to do one thing b/c you have been too easy for him. In fact, you are so easy that you are willing to take all the blame just to get him back again.

It bothers me that you are blaming yourself that your H would be home with you if you were not the one that needed help. Why are you doing this? He should have to take responsibility for the decisions he made and the after-effects that his wife and children have had to suffer due to his own MLC and screwing around.

I'm not telling you to stop loving him. I'm telling you to toughen up and show some "attitude" and spunk. Don' think so little of yourself that you contine to be his doormat. Read some books from the library that help women with their self-esteem. There are places on the internet that you can download free that could encourage you in that area. I can't help but believe he has lost some of that "respect" and sense of how valuable you are b/c you have clouded your perception of what loving another person is compared to demanding their respect for you.
That's why I told you that I felt you needed to do a lot of work on you, Nicole. You have been beaten down for a long time. You need to hear the real truth, and then accept it about yourself and your M, and you need a lot of encouragement. Then go to work!

You don't know how much I want this to work for you. You are valuable Nicole, not only as an individual, but to those kids. When your H finally gets some sense, he will see how valuable you are to him also. Most of all, honey, learn to like yourself. If you don't like yourself, nobody else will either.

Take care.

Sandi

[Maya44]

Sandi,

How in the world did you get soooo wise on all of this when you've only been here since June?

[sandi2]

lol........just old honey, just old.