cac's comment about porn on Mojo's thread ultimately upset me. I read it hours ago and felt guilty but I decided to just let it go. Then I read Mojo's response to cac. Mojo, this is not in any way directed at you. You merely asked him a question based on the way your TBX was with you. We are both type 4s and LD, so I get why you would ask.
My reaction was to write a post clarifying what it was like with us. I didn't want anyone to think that I was as cold and heartless as Mojo's TBX. Afterall, he's a PAL and if I needed porn to have sex with cac and didn't want to cuddle, then maybe I'm a PAL too. Mojo, I know you weren't implying that; it is my own guilt and bad feelings about myself.
But, I've seen the light. Things are much better for cac and me. I've worked hard on myself. I should feel good about that, right? I should be able to let the past lie, right? I mean, it's the past. I can't change it. All I can do is look to the future and I'm doing that. So what's the problem?
The problem is that I still feel like an LDW. Sometimes it's like I have a red LD pinned to my clothes. It feels somewhat like what I imagine a recovering alcoholic might feel like, at least at first. An alcoholic is always an alcoholic even when sober because they're not "cured." At any time they could relapse. But they go to their weekly meeting and get support from others struggling as they are. And they take one day at a time.
I'll bet once they get sober they feel guilty about the way they used to be, the way they used to hurt the ones they love. Maybe they wish they could turn the clock back and do it over. But they can't.
I still find myself worrying that cac isn't satisfied or feeling loved. He might tell me he is, but that's this week. What about next week? I still sometimes do calculations in my head about how many times we've done it this week or about how long it's been since the last time. I worry that if too much time goes by I'll slip into old patterns. It's like I'm looking over my shoulder. I don't know what the future holds for me regarding meds. I have medical conditions that might require meds that kill my libido. I could very well need ADs at some point down the road, but I don't even think I could consider that unless I was seriously ill because of what they would do to my sex drive. It's like any day now the rug could be pulled out from under me and then it's just like the old days.
I still have a lot of guilt and when I see a comment like that it brings it front and center. And I don't know what to do to make it go away. I guess I don't know how to stop beating myself up either. Must go with the territory.
I also was upset because I do censor myself and choose my words carefully here because cac posts here too and I guess I was expecting the same from him. Maybe that's some sort of covert contract. It just has gotten to a point in our R where it seems pointless to rehash old stuff. But this wasn't old because cac didn't even realize how he felt about me using porn to have sex until he read Mojo's post. He bought all the porn and never indicated to me at the time that it bothered him that I watched it. He didn't even see it as an issue until now.
So now I wonder....should we stay here and continue to read posts and get insight into issues like this? Or, should we move on and focus on the future and let the past lie? Or will the past come back to bite us if we aren't fully aware of its impact on us?
I guess what I'm afraid of is that neither I nor cac will ever really see me as anything but a recovering LDW. And an LDW is such a bad thing to be.
mrs cac, I'm sorry you are feeling so distressed. I know that I would have a hard time posting here if my bf also posted. I do understand it seems like this "label" is stuck on you.
Part of what you're doing is telling yourself that cac's happiness and satisfaction level is directly related to what you do or don't do in the sex department. That whether he grades you as an A or a C or God forbid a D has something to do with his happiness and your worth as a person. Your self-confidence in the sexual arena is not something that he can fix-- as you've pointed out, even when he tells you everything is fine, you can't quite believe him.
I think living with your feelings of uncertainty and from moment to moment being honest about how you are feeling, no matter how uncomfortable you feel, might be a good course for you. As in that article about the darkness. Maybe journaling--not here-- about the dark feelings and judgments would help. Marion Woodman, a wonderful writer and psychotherapst-- you would ADORE her books-- talks about "holding the tension of the opposites," by which she means that when we feel pain and discomfort, our tendency is to run, change the subject, blame someone else, do something to distract ourselves... but the healing of that discomfort comes from being with the feelings and not running from them. Hard to do, especially if there's a pint of Pralines and Cream in the freezer or a big sale at Stein Mart or a great movie on TV. This is basically what that article said, too.
You can leave the board or stay (I hope you will stay) but you cannot jettison the past until it floats away on its own. If it's still rearing its head, then there's unfinished business there. Doesn't necessarily mean you and cac have to have a zillion heavy discussions, but you can be with some of these feelings on your own. Like the article says, observe where in your body you feel the discomfort. Write it down. Permit the feelings. Thank them for letting you know where healing has to happen.
A wonderful book that has helped me a lot is "Poemcrazy," that gives exercises for writing poetry to access and heal feelings.
Anyway, I think we've pretty much decided on this BB that anyone can be HD or LD depending on the circumstances. The terms are really a shorthand that kind of shortchange people.
The thing about being on this board is that it is simply too painful for me to read all the posts about the LDWs. My changes are still new and my skin is quite thin, so I don't think it's the best thing for me right now.
Using the alcoholic analogy again...what might it be like for a newly recovering alcoholic to hang out on a board where people go to vent about their non-recovering alcoholic spouses and how difficult their lives are with these people. I don't imagine it would make said newly recovering alcoholic feel very good.
I have enjoyed writing back and forth with LS and have felt positive about my exchanges with her. Maybe the same way that one recovering alcholic might feel talking to another at an AA meeting. Does this make sense? We know what it's like to be in each other's shoes, just as all of the HD folks do with each other. I think this is what was driving my feeling of not fitting in, but I didn't get it until now.
I am in the middle of my own kind of recovery and I need support. Not that you guys aren't supportive, but this is, afterall, the SSM board. It's not the same as if the board was focused on the recovery of LD folk, and really, LD women, because LD men are a whole different animal I think.
It might be helpful if there was such a board, but maybe there wouldn't be enough posters to keep it going.
Thanks Lil. I'll be churning and disecting and processing what you said like the type 4 that I am.
I guess if I'm honest with myself I'd have to admit that I still feel responsible for the old sex life, so that translates to feeling responsible for the new one. And there is still a lot of unfinished business both with myself and between cac and me. Consciously I know that it's not my sole responsibility to bear but I guess my subconscious has a different opinion.
I don't think that living with my uncomfortable feelings is that foreign to me. I am not afraid of them, but I think I do tend to suppress them for periods of time, maybe because I learned long ago to do that. But I am incapable of suppressing them forever. The tough part is that they tend to pop out at the most unexpected times. The good part is that I always think I know myself just a tiny bit better afterwards.
I guess what I'm afraid of is that neither I nor cac will ever really see me as anything but a recovering LDW. And an LDW is such a bad thing to be.
A selfish LDW, is a bad thing to be. An uncaring LDW, is a bad thing to be.
are you either of those things?
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as far as dealing with being an LDW; If you can deal with an extreme case well, then anything lesser, is cake.
To take a look at a hypothetical "extreme case": If next month, you had to undergo a medically required hysterectomy, and your SD dropped to zero... would that mean you would then stop having sex with your husband, because you had no hormonally based 'drive' any more?
Or would you continue to love him, and show him that in a physically intimate way?
Last edited by Dom R; 02/02/0805:09 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I guess what I'm afraid of is that neither I nor cac will ever really see me as anything but a recovering LDW. And an LDW is such a bad thing to be.
((((((mrscac))))))) I am going to tell you that your statement just doesn't have to be true. You may feel like that inside and that gets more to your self-esteem, but I bet cac would say differently. I am speaking from my own experience here. I truly don't even think of my H as LD right now. In fact, he is more HD than me, simply by the effort he is putting forth (as you are). See? Things can change. The dynammics of the R/M can change. You are amazing mrscac. And I think my H is amazing too...for making such an effort. Just wanted to give you a hug and big pat on the back. You can be Proud. And I really encourage you to kick that LD label to the curb. It is not going to help you in the long run. You too cac. I think when you can both get rid of the HD/LD labels, your M will see a great improvement.
I know you are trying to help, but at this point, I don't think that entertaining such an extreme hypothetical scenario is the way to go. I spend too much time worrying about the what-ifs and not enjoying the what IS. My post was a vent of sorts, and an expression of what I was feeling when I wrote it. It was cathartic to get it out and in doing so I have gained some new insights into myself and my R. So it has served its purpose.
I don't think that living with my uncomfortable feelings is that foreign to me. I am not afraid of them, but I think I do tend to suppress them for periods of time, maybe because I learned long ago to do that. But I am incapable of suppressing them forever.
It's not just a question of letting the uncomfortable feelings out and then reaching for them with a plastic-gloved and and holding your nose with the other before disposing of them as quickly as possible (like cleaning up dog poop), but and here is where the analogy breaks down! treating the uncomfortable feelings like little orphan children who have been living under the garage, feeling unwelcome, starving, and needing attention. There is NOTHING in you that is inherently destructive. Every part of you supports your life. (That is why I told LS that she is NOT "broken.") These feelings have something for you. That article talked about going through fear to find the joy. IMHO working on this with your C and/or journaling are good ways of making friends with these feelings.
Type 4's usually love this delving in the meaning of things type of activity: where in your body do you feel the discomfort? What is it like? Being locked in a closet? Being on stage with no clothes on? In the principal's office waiting for a scolding? etc. This is the stuff of art, my dear. This is where painting, poetry, music, dance, sculpture, novels come from-- just this sort of exploration.
The things you are feeling are universal, not just on this board, but all over the world and throughout human history. This is a journey countless others have taken and are taking right now.
Climb up to the mountain top for a minute and get a global perspective... you have nothing to feel embarrassed about or devalued about... you're searching for your joy, and that is a worthy task to spend a lifetime on. K?
The dynamics are changing and things are better. But like I've said before uncovering my true sexuality is like unpeeling a giant onion one layer at a time. Some layers trip me up for a bit.
I know that cac isn't thinking of me as LD now. He has told me specifically that he's happy with the way our SL has been going. He also commented that the HD/LD lines are blurring in our R. I certainly was not LD this morning.
I also had an interesting observation this morning. I'm finding that I treasure our physical times together, whether it be just touching or sex because it makes me feel loved too. I still love my QT certainly, but because I know that PT is his LL, I really feel the love now when we are physical. Does that make sense? This is a new thing.
We had some words last night about the other posts and my feelings and his feelings and we didn't go to bed "mad," but I think he was uncertain because in the past I *would* have been mad and would not have wanted physical contact with him. But last night and this morning I craved his touch. It's an amazing transformation.
Cobra once alluded to the fact that my LL was QT because of my FOO. I've been thinking that we were all born craving human touch and therefore maybe we're all wired to feel loved through touch. Unfortunately some of us get some bad programming along the way and we sort of adopt other LLs based on our experiences. Certainly touch was not a big thing in my family. My father used to hug me, but not in the cuddly way that Mojo describes. It was more of a roughhousing squeeze that often used to hurt a bit. I don't remember my mother saying she loved me and she still doesn't. I would feel uncomfortable telling either of my parents "I love you." OTOH, I tell my son that I love him every day and it feels completely natural.
