By "emotional distance" I don't mean hiding in your emotional corner and alternately pouting and taking pot shots. I mean emotional distance just like in that Khahil Gibran poem that everyone reads at weddings "Let there be space in your togetherness" or something like that. Your H's behavior is screaming at you,"I will not be controlled by you and your poor self image", "I will do what I want about sex when I want", "I am my own person". You are forcing him into a corner what with all the "soulmate" and "he's PERFECT BUT.....". Let him be imperfect. You be imperfect. Be sexual with him without pre-ordained expectation and for Gawds sake without babying him sexually. All that sex therapy bull crap of "do this then move slowly to that" is fine IF he is on board, if he is initiating this to work through his issues. If it is you leading and Mommying him through. It won't work. I don't mean to seem harsh but I just kinda get the sense that you have heaped expectations on him that are about more than just being spouses/parents and lovers and he is resisting that.
Karen
Nah, I don't think you're being harsh at all! Just to the point, which I love! I don't baby him. He's completely on board to get this fixed, just takes time from both of us. Yes, I used to have heaping expectations (before I knew what the real issue was behind it all), and that pushed him away. I know it might seem like I'm babing him, I can get where you see that. If I don't motivate him/us to change, then it never will. He'd hate the fact that we're not lovers, but not do much to change it. I'm sure you've met those people who hate their jobs, but all they do is complain about it, and not much to change it - well, he's like that when it comes to our sex life. He'll complain about what's going on, but when it comes to working towards a solution, he freezes. So that's when we work together (with my persistance) to try and figure it out. I've tried just laying low, and did that for about 2 years before I realized that he wasn't doing anything to change the situation - he was just complaining about it. So w/out me kind of pushing him to work together to change the issue, he wouldn't change a thing. So, not babying, but helping. At least that's what I think I'm doing. Do you see it differently? I could be blind, which is why I love this board! I being blunt and "harsh" is necessary for me to hear! I don't care if I'm wrong in any way, I just want it fixed, so if hearing that I'm doing it all wrong is what's going to fix it - then tell away!!!
Oh, and trust me, we are both extremely imperfect, which is what makes him perfect in my eyes. Our relationship is never going to be "perfect", which is why I love being in it. Perfect is boring!!!
Kellie ------ Me - 27 H - 31 S - born 8/18/2007 Married - 4/24/2005 Together - 7/03/2002
So how come you DID marry the one that wouldn't have sex with you? Some kind of perverse desire to CHANGE him. I think that's what Karen is talking about.
If I don't motivate him/us to change, then it never will.
that's when we work together (with my persistance)
So w/out me kind of pushing him to work together to change the issue, he wouldn't change a thing. So, not babying, but helping. At least that's what I think I'm doing.
Most of us have been there and it takes a LOT to really see it in yourself and a LOT to give up manipulating the other person and just letting them be. At the moment you're still in denial that you're doing this after a while you might get to the point where you do start to see it and then after an even longer while you might start to change things about yourself.
Step 1 is to start focusing on you. Start to realise that the only person you can change is yourself. Deal with your body image issues, deal with your self-esteem issues and don't make it about him. It's his job to worry about him.
I am only just finally getting this myself after 16 years married to an alcoholic and something like 4 years on these boards. And only now am I finally beginning to get it. So one step at a time K at least you have come to the right place and you are taking that one step along the right road.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
If I don't motivate him/us to change, then it never will.
It is positively absolutely NOT your job to motivate him. It can't be done anyway. The only work you are responsible for is YOURS. So do what you feel motivated to do.
And don't say "never"-- you don't know what lies ahead.
So how do you guys do it? My self-esteem plummeted when my H stopped wanted to ML. I feel completely confident and alive at work. When I come home, it's a different story. I feel almost worthless as a wife. I feel great as a mom! But I don't feel sexy, wanted, desired, as a wife. As I'm sitting here thinking about how to raise my self-esteem, what comes to mind is just forgetting it all and working on myself. But when I do that (which I've tried in the past), that's when I grow distant from our relationship, when I focus on myself, and when I'm "done" w/ our marriage. I don't want that! I want it to work. I realize that I can't motivate him to change, I realize that I'm the only one that can affect my self-esteem, but what I don't realize is how to do it w/out hurting him and our marriage.
In the past, I've tried to let him be. Not push him to change, let him move at his own pace - and he didn't move - at all. We got absolutely no where, and this is when I cheated on him (this was all before we got married).
It just feels hopeless. I'm so sorry that I sound like such a "Debbie Downer". I really appreicate all of your comments! This is the first time that I've actually had someone to talk to outside of a counselor, and it feels good to get it off my chest w/out my H there. I feel like I can't be 100% honest b/c H doesn't know that I cheated on him. Maybe I should start going to a counselor myself. . .
Kellie ------ Me - 27 H - 31 S - born 8/18/2007 Married - 4/24/2005 Together - 7/03/2002
When I come home, it's a different story. I feel almost worthless as a wife. I feel great as a mom! But I don't feel sexy, wanted, desired, as a wife. As I'm sitting here thinking about how to raise my self-esteem, what comes to mind is just forgetting it all and working on myself. But when I do that (which I've tried in the past), that's when I grow distant from our relationship, when I focus on myself, and when I'm "done" w/ our marriage. I don't want that! I want it to work.
ksuer - so strange, I could have written those words and I'm a LDW! Recently, at my suggestion, we have agreed to take turns intiating. The intiator gets to decide where, what, when. We are also going to take turns doing something intimate - be it a bath, massage, whatever. I don't know if this would work for you guys, but I already feel less pressure and less like a failure.
Do what? We do the same as you: we feel our self-esteem plummet, we don't feel attractive any more, we cry, we get depressed, we wonder why we can't get a rise out of the men in our lives.
In my case, I finally realized I was getting nowhere and told my bf the boy-girl thing wasn't working. Now we're friends only and I feel myself coming back to life.
LFL was ready to run to a former bf and her H FINALLY got the message that his lack of interest was a problem for her (duh!) and he jumped on the bandwagon (and on LFL). Hers is one of the few success stories.
Mojo kicked H out after almost two decades of making excuses for him and trying to please him.
Karen is hurting and doesn't plan on going anywhere.
Frankly, I don't see how the men on here who haven't had a sweet, congenial, mutually desired sexual encounter in decades manage to survive... and still WANT R's with their wives.
Recently, at my suggestion, we have agreed to take turns intiating. The intiator gets to decide where, what, when. We are also going to take turns doing something intimate - be it a bath, massage, whatever. I don't know if this would work for you guys, but I already feel less pressure and less like a failure.
Light - this would probably work if he was in the mood to initiate. We've tried scheduling it into the calendar (then we both dreaded it the whole day b/c we knew how it was going to end), we tried never turning eachother down, we tried a lot of things. But the end result is still the same. He feels pressure to perform and ends up like a limp noodle. Anxiety attack, again. Counselor once said that he had all of the issues, he needed to fix himself, and I couldn't do anything. I left that session crying. We never went to her again - or any other counselor for that matter. He was pissed b/c he felt like our marriage was entirely on his shoulders (what a great way to reduce the anxiety!) and I was pissed b/c I felt like we were never going to have a normal sex life (you know, more than twice a year). So the last time we saw a counselor was over a year ago. I've thought about going to a different one, but H doesn't think that it's helped, so he doesn't want to go. He wants to figure this out ourselves. I told him that we would've done that 5.5 years ago if we knew how. He agreed. . .and we never really got anywhere from that conversation. Well, I take that back, we agreed on two things. 1) never turn down sex when the other initiates & 2) he can't watch porn to get off. That never bothered me before, but for the past year our sex life has basically become zilch, and I almost feel as if he's cheating on me. I know that it's just porn, he has no attachment to those women, but it's so hard for me to think about him staring at those women, desiring them, getting turned on by them, and then coming to bed and sleeping next to me. That just tears me up inside.
Kellie ------ Me - 27 H - 31 S - born 8/18/2007 Married - 4/24/2005 Together - 7/03/2002
Lillieperl, CONGRATS TO YOU!!! That is so great that you got out before it was too late. You should be VERY proud of yourself!
I was stupid. Married into the problem and KNEW the problem was a big one. As I've said before, threatened divorce and told him no kids until we fix it. Only to find out I was pregs. My own d@mn fault. I think that's why I'm so upset now. I've finally realized that we brought a child into this screwed up relationship. I've never felt trapped before, and now I feel extremely trapped. I think that's why this is hitting me much harder than normal. I look at H, and how much he loves DS, and I just can't even fathom taking DS away from H. Not that I would take him far away into never-never land. But I know that H would absolutely die if he couldn't put DS to sleep every night. And come home to him w/ a big smile on his face. I guess reality has finally set in. . .
You should feel extremely greatful that you made the choice you did!
Kellie ------ Me - 27 H - 31 S - born 8/18/2007 Married - 4/24/2005 Together - 7/03/2002
ksuer - it is so strange to read your posts. You and your H and me and mine are living reversed parallel lives. We've been to 3 counselors and we've both decided not to pursue that route any further. Our physiological issues are different than you and your H's, but psychologically I am right there with you.
The taking turns works for me, the LD one, because for some reason I feel less pressure. We just started, so I'll let you know how it goes.
Porn - I have very strong views on this topic. My husband was looking at porn shortly after we were married, I was pregnant AND I realized he was calling old girlfriends (just calls - never meetings). I am strongly opposed to porn, and I felt betrayed, cheated on, and like I could never live up to the 18 year old airbrushed girls that are often crying under their make-up. The porn is out of our house. It was internet stuff - really raunchy. But that is what started the blow to my self esteem.
I feel somewhat trapped by our DD also. My H is a wonderful father. I also know how hard it would be to be a single parent most of the time, and I don't see myself dating again. Lately, I have tried to focus on H's good points and acknowledge that I am far from perfect. The taking turns is the best thing we have come up with yet. I hope it helps.
Well, you can't blame the pregnancy ENTIRELY on yourself...
Your sitch is tough... but you two could move into houses or apartments next door to each other so your son could go back and forth at will. A friend of mine got a divorce and moved a block away from her ex. Her kids went freely back and forth between the houses. They were in grade school. Now both have graduated from college and live away from home. There ARE creative solutions. There was an article in our local paper about a happily married couple who live in an upstairs-downstairs duplex. She lives upstairs and he lives downstairs. Of course they spend a lot of time together, but they each love having their own space.
You can't take all the responsibility for a solution on your own shoulders. Also you can't live the rest of your life this way.
