She's ready to move on

[Michael Mc C]

Stealing a message left for me by Sara on Yoyo's "Playhouse" thread:

I was reading your sitch tonight. Looks like your wife is too comfortable with married life to really go it alone. there is a really good retrouvaille group in New Jersey, I'm not sure where, but Hopeforfuture went a couple of weeks ago and had a great outcome. He posted on LWB's last thread about it. You should look into it, http://www.helpourmarriage.org. It saved my marriage too.

Thanks Sara. I've spoken to HFF about this as well. I'm waiting for that "sign" from my wife indicating that she is ready to turn things around. I've mentioned Retro to her once before and it didn't go over well at all - she feels that I was trying to coerce her into a weekend of forced counseling...

I agree that her life is too good right now for her to go anywhere. Unfortunately, I think it's also too good for her to really consider fixing the marriage. She can sit on the fence and coast along.

We had a friendly discussion not too long ago regading self-esteem and she told me that she feels that she has a surplus of this. I hadn't thought of it at that time but in reality I feel she is really lacking in this department. She is stubborn and she is quick to make a decision but I think this is an attempt to show strength.

I've seen the way she speaks to people online and how she allows others to speak to her. She soaks up the attention like a shy highschooler - it makes me sad to have seen this display of low self respect/esteem.

[Dr LOve]

I agree that her life is too good right now for her to go anywhere. Unfortunately, I think it's also too good for her to really consider fixing the marriage. She can sit on the fence and coast along.

Mmc I thought you were talking about YOUR wife not mine.....

when did you and my wife meet???

H

[Michael Mc C]

It is amazing how these situations seem to follow some kind of a script. Need to find a copy of it so I can see what's coming...LOL

[Michael Mc C]

Had a long talk with W last night. Started off light and fun, with the more risque comments being made with pen and paper (kids were around). Drank some wine and, as was inevitable, we began talking about us.

She is still working through her crap about OM. She also assured me that nothing like this will ever happen again. "I got burned once, I'm done."

My reply was "I got burned 3 times in 2007, should I be done?"

As expected, she said she didn't know. She said there are no guarantees because she's still trying to work through crap.

She accused me of spying (reading log files, grilling friends and family for information, checking to see who she's on the phone with). I denied all of this. In fact I told her how to turn the logging off for the game. I also told her that if I wanted to I could set up a keylogger on the computer and find out everything she types. I'm not interested.

Definitely in limbo right now. Need to find a way to shake some things up around here.

[Yoyowife]

Michael,
You are so right that all of the WAS are basically the same.

~None of them think they need counseling

~All think it's okay to have the affair, but how dare you check up on them!

~ In my case my H got furious when he found out that the OW's H had contacted me. He said the we were trying to manipulate them, wow, insanity knows no bounds, does it?

~ Of course let's not forget that we get accused of seeing someone else!

[Dr LOve]

Had a long talk with W last night. Started off light and fun, with the more risque comments being made with pen and paper (kids were around). Drank some wine and, as was inevitable, we began talking about us.

She is still working through her crap about OM. She also assured me that nothing like this will ever happen again. "I got burned once, I'm done."

My reply was "I got burned 3 times in 2007, should I be done?"

As expected, she said she didn't know. She said there are no guarantees because she's still trying to work through crap.

She accused me of spying (reading log files, grilling friends and family for information, checking to see who she's on the phone with). I denied all of this. In fact I told her how to turn the logging off for the game. I also told her that if I wanted to I could set up a keylogger on the computer and find out everything she types. I'm not interested.

Definitely in limbo right now. Need to find a way to shake some things up around here.

Hey Mmc

at least you are talking about it..this is good. at least for you... I have not mentioned the OM to my W for the last 8 months...yes it is something that is eating away at me...I don't think she knows how much this has hurt me..Sooo many times I wanted to say something but have not..I want to ask her how she would feel if I did it. Unfortunatly she knows me to well...
Sorry I did not mean to talk about my sitch but did want to let ya know that at least you two can talk about it.. it's a start

Husband

[Michael Mc C]

It is a start indeed. And we continued yesterday. We both agreed that all contact with OM needs to be cut off (which it has been since before Christmas).

We discussed the friendship that WE have and how she never wants to lose that. She described our "friendship" and holy cow, it sounded like our marriage (aside from the physical part). She doesn't seem to understand that I am not just a friend and the feelings she has for me are NOT just those of another friend. She holds me higher than anything or anyone else in the world - her own words really.

In a nutshell she said "I don't need the marriage, it's a piece of paper. I need the friendship with you."

Aside from the physical aspect, and the fact that she isn't listening to what she's saying, this almost sounds perfect.

I am so frustrated by all of this that I find myself thinking of walking away. I want to give her time to "come to her senses" but I know that as long as she misses the excitement of OM, I can't 1) replace that excitement (she pulls away) and 2) she won't see me for what/who I am.

I have begun thinking about how I can get her to see what life without me would be like. The problem I have is I don't know HOW to cut her off. I should have done this in the beginning before things started to look better. I should have stuck to my guns in September, when I gave her the list of things she could expect from "Life with Michael".

Hah, a quick thought just came to me: We spoke about her 2 year plan last night (which she denies ever having). She told me this morning that she wants to get her PhD. I laughed and said "Great, so now it's a 12 year plan..."

I know that she will never see me for me if I continue to make her life a dream, let her cake eat (commit to nothing but live as if nothing has changed since the beginning of 2007) - if I continue to view her as my wife. The biggest issue is that I don't feel that I have it in me to pull away from her and to to start holding back.

I was so strong when her R with OM was going on (relatively speaking). Now that she's just hurting and floating, it seems like the wrong time to give up on her.

Crap. I feel really torn right now. Any suggestions on this? I feel we COULD be on the cusp of something here, I got a partly passionate kiss last night - I initiated it, she didn't pull away. There's something still missing.

Maybe I need to quell those 'friendship' feelings. Maybe she needs to understand that she has never had a friend like me because she has never had a husband before. Her deep feelings for me are those of a couple in a mature relationship (20 years). I don't know, maybe I'm just blowing smoke.

I know one thing for sure. I seem to be rambling... LOL

[Dr LOve]

MMC,

Hey buddy, I swear your R and mine are sooo close, I mean aside from the talking about the OM. Yes everything "seems" fine again side form not being physical... Her attitude has changed so much. She is becoming a good friend....But I don't want to have a live in friend... I know what you are talking about feeling really torn right now. And being on the cusp of something. I think we are getting all of our ducks in order, what I mean to say is that if we put our foot down months ago when our spouses were DEEP in the fog, they would have had no problem leaving us. But.... My W now talks about the future... Like she is planning on being around for a long time. I on the other hand have put off all of the projects around the house because I don't know how much longer we will be here. If we D we HAVE to sell the house at a loss...Like I said If we made our W make a choice back then it would most likely be over by now.. What we have done by waiting and proving we are not needy has made them feel a little too secure... Remember how you felt when you first found out your marriage was probably over??? Panicked, desperate, willing to do anything???? Well I am hoping that soon you and I can reverse this role... We have grown strong, we have grown independent, and we have grown horny..... (Sorry I had to throw that in). Now that Our W think they are standing on solid ground it will be time for you and me to pull the rug out from under them... I do not mean this in a bad way. What I mean is now is the time for them to see what they will be loosing... We have done good MMc..We did not throw their evil spew back at them. We have not given them any reason to confirm their past issues they had with us... Don't know about you but I have / had enough evidence to destroy two families. But I did not use it. I did not want to lower myself to the OM level. (Yet).Soon buddy soon we will need to take our lives back. Take our families back... If not I think we are ready to move on... I know I am.....

Dr love

[Mom of 2 Cherubs]

Husband and MMC,

Having been the WAW of someone on this site, I would suggest you move on. Tell them to make their decision, look for somewhere to live, start the D process. Then pull away. Being their live in friend and acting "normal" but without the physical stuff just makes them hold on. They have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately tough love is what needs to happen.

When my husband did this, it was like a slap in the face. It also helped that OG's W started her nastiness again and I was faced with taking down the christmas tree and separating the family ornaments, etc. It was just a huge wake up call for me.

What do you possibly have to lose? If nothing else has worked yet, tough love tends to do the trick.

Once you've done all of this, then suggest retrovaille as a way to improve communication after the D "for the kids sake". That weekend will help tremendously no matter what ends up happening. Either it will reignite something or it will truly help each of you in your next relationships.

[Michael Mc C]

Thanks Mom, I think it's great that you have begun posting. I'm familiar with your sitch - from your H's perspective initially but I have just read your thread over in Newcomers.

That is exactly how I'm feeling. We have levelled off, plateaued. No movement in either direction, although she has admitted to trying to reconnect with me and the family as a whole.

My struggle at this point is whether this is a matter of patience now or do I stir things up? There is no anger, no bitterness and if you were to stop by and visit us for the night you'd think we were happily married... Maybe we should get together and double-date

Best of both worlds seems very accurate. There is no need for commitment on her part because she's getting everything (relatively speaking) by continuing to live here.

If I'm not mistaken your H did exactly as you say at a point where things were not running smoothly. In other words, I almost wish W and I could have a blow up so I can accomplish this without it seeming like it's coming out of the blue.

But maybe that's too weak of an approach. My BIL and I had this same discussion over the weekend. I told him that I just don't know how to stop "being a husband". How do I pull the rug out from under her when there are no strong outward signs that it's necessary?

It seems I've become too comfortable with the present sitch as well...