Overwhelmed with uncertainty

[GoingForward]

Hi there. I originally posted in the Newcomers forum but havent received any kind of feedback. Hopefully something will happen here.

Here's the link to my previous thread. A Load of Uncertainty

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

[Michael Mc C]

Probably a good idea to repost here... Have copied over your two posts:

Hi there. Im new to the site but not DBing. Bought the book almost 3 yrs ago when it all hit the fan. Anyhow, I guess I should start with the basics.

Me - 32
H - 33
Kids - 3 sons, ages 12, 8, and 3
M'ed in 1997
S'ed in 2005

Current status of our R - still S'ed. Originally filed for D in May 2006, but before we were due in court, H came to me saying he wanted to work it out because he missed me and the kids, and he wanted to be a family again, which I wanted as well. I think I asked for 2 or 3 continuances since that time, not totally taking the D off-calendar until Feb 2007, when H assured me that he wanted to be together.

Finally, I reached a point where I grew tired of hearing words and not seeing actions on his part to support his words, so I filed for a second time this past November. We are set to go to court this March 4th.

Not all that surprising, H came to me about 3 or 4 weeks ago to talk about reconciliation yet once again. Says all he knows is that he is miserable with everything. He looks back at past mistakes and wishes he could do it all over again, and do it right. He says he understands now that all R's are two-way streets, and they need to be nurtured. Says he now can see how selfish he was back then and never wants to be that way again.

He says he wants the real thing, and what we had back then was definitely the real thing. Not something phony, which is how we would both describe the relationships we've had since our S. There was no real love in any of them. (Since being S'ed, we both have dated others.)

All of this is great. I believe it is exactly what anyone in my sitch would hope to hear from their spouse. Yet, they are just words. Words that I have often heard over the last couple of years but not yet seen put into action, until recently. (I have always stressed to H that spending time together was going to be vital for this R, for me, to work. He's always known it, too, and the lack of QT together was our biggest downfall.)

H and I have had a couple of dates together, with the kids, since the beginning of this year. One weekend, we took the boys to see "Walking With Dinosaurs", and on another, we took them to the movies together.

This Super Bowl weekend, H and I are supposed to go to Reno, alone. He's asked me a few times if I'm excited about it, and I've said yes.

Truth is...I'm not. I'm happy about going to Reno, only because it has been a long time since I've gotten to go away for a weekend. However, I'm not excited about going with H. I'm uncertain. About everything.

H says he still loves me and misses me, wants to spend time with me. But I can't help feeling as though it's not entirely true. I often feel like he just wants to work it out because "it's cheaper to keep her." 3 kids together, and a wife who didn't work in order to stay home with them....You do the math.

I'll go more into why I feel this way later. Right now, unfortunately, I'm running short on time.

Before I go, let me add that I know I'm part to blame for our M going the way it has. It's not all his fault, and I'm sorry if I've made it sound like it is in any way. I've even expressed this to H, many times. But he tells me I have nothing to be sorry about. He continues to say that it was all him. I know that's not true.

Thank you for listening.

TroubledUncertainty

[Michael Mc C]

More thoughts...

I suppose I should try to explain why I'm unsure about this M working out.

First, H hasn't always been 100% honest with me, so it's extremely difficult for me to believe him, to trust anything that he says. I want to believe him, and I want to believe that his intentions are genuine, but I have a really hard time with it.

When he says that he loves me, it's difficult to believe him because I feel that's not true. I think he cares, probably deeply, for me, but love....I don't think so.

So many hurtful things have been said between the two of us, and I know people say stupid things all the time. All the time. But I honestly do not know if I can get past them, and I wonder if H has or can, too.

I ask myself, "What am I doing here?" What am I doing, still in this sitch? Why am I not D'ed yet?

I didn't want to file for D, but after some time had gone by, I told myself that there just wasn't any hope, not one bit.

Then H would call, or stop by to say hi to the kids, and look at me, with what appeared to be real sadness. He'd often express his regret for how things turned out for us, and he'd bring up memories. Good memories, of course, of our years together.

I feel like it's all been some kind of game. Some demented, emotional game where he tugs on my heart strings, knowing that if he can butter me up a little, then I won't go through with the D, so I end(ed) up waiting...and waiting...and waiting. For what?

For nothing, because that's exactly what would happen. Nothing. I'm really surprised that we've had two dates so far this past month, although they've included the kids.

And I worry about what that says to them. Since our S, H and I have not done anything together. Almost 3 yrs of Mom and Dad not doing anything together with the kids, and now all of a sudden?! I don't know what to say to them, if I should say anything at all, when I'm not sure myself about what's going on.

Second, as I stated in my first post, both H and I have dated others during our S. When he came to me a few weeks ago and said he wanted to reconcile, again, I said the first thing that needed to happen was for any ongoing R's, outside of ours, needed to stop. Immediately. He agreed.

I stopped seeing the guy I was dating, and H said he ended it with who he was seeing as well. He went into detail about their breakup and said he told her not to call him.

About a week after this, she called him, and I know this because he told me. He said he did not call her back and didn't plan to.

This is very troubling for me for two reasons: One, why would someone call you when you told them not to anymore? If I was told by a guy I was seeing that it was over, then hey - it's over. No more phone calls, nothing. Especially if that was his wish.

Two, this has happened before. H had an A, I found out, he called her in front of me to tell her it was over and not to call him again, then the next week, I found out that their communication really hadn't ended at all. I found out through snooping - not proud of it - but it confirmed what my gut instinct was telling me.

That same instinct is echoing in my head again.

I don't think he's totally stopped talking with her. He couldn't stop it the first time, not the second, nor the third. H has had a few A's - two EA's before we M'ed, and one A before our S. They never came to a complete end until I was one foot out the door.

I'm just really unsure about this. I don't know if the trust can ever exist again, and I don't know if I can ever really love him again. I care for him, very much, but the love just isn't there. Not like it used to be.

We go to court on March 4th, and I am not asking for a continuance again. I feel like if anything's going to happen to convince me that he really wants this, and that I do, too, it's going to have to happen fast.

Thank you for listening.
_________________________
TroubledUncertainty

[GoingForward]

Thank you, Michael. Much appreciated :).

[karen43]

Have you tried any kind of counseling yet? That's something that I think every couple should try before divorce, although of course my H refuses to try it because of the OW involved in our R, but it sounds like in your case, that you would both be willing to try it maybe? Karen43

[GoingForward]

Thanks, karen.

Unfortunately, counselling is not an option. H flat out refuses, says he doesn't believe in it.

I tried to persuade him several times during our M into going, but he just wouldn't, won't.

I think he really needs it. I think he's been in some kind of a depression for a very, very long time. He's not happy with himself, claims he never has, and feels that he will never be 100% pleased with his life but says he accepts it for what it is.

That doesn't really help me any. Makes me feel as though our R is nothing, or would be nothing. Something that's not genuine, because I would always wonder in the back of my mind, "What is he doing with me when he's made it clear that he may never be truly happy?"

A few times, I've thought about going myself, but as crazy as it might sound, I feel more at ease here, in a forum where I'm safeguarded by anonymity. I've just always been a very quiet, private person who has trouble voicing her thoughts.

[GoingForward]

Why does he want to work it out? Does he even really want to? Does he feel he needs to out of guilt?

I question these things everyday. A lot of it is because of stuff he's said in the past. I heard the dreadful "ILYBINILWY" line, and that this whole M was one big mistake. That one kid turned into M, then another kid, then a mortgage, and then another kid. Had to hear, numerous times, that he never wanted any of it. Never wanted to marry me, never wanted to have kids with me, never wanted to be with me. He stayed in the R because he "thought it was the right thing to do". He's said a couple of times that he hated me, couldn't stand the sight of me.

Most of the time, these things were said during arguments. Sometimes they weren't.

H has apologized many times for every hurtful thing he's ever said. It has been nearly impossible for me to believe him. Can anyone understand how difficult this is? To believe the man you once loved, more than anything else in the world, when he says he wants to be with you again, but at the same time, have those painful words that came from his mouth, his feelings, constantly echoing in your head?

Why should I believe him now? After all this time? Especially after knowing he knows what he will have to give the kids and me for support. Several months back, his reaction, after talking with his ATTY, was that he wasn't going to work like he had been. Just so he wouldn't have to give us as much. His own words. Didn't care that he'd be screwing himself as well, moneywise. Again, his words.

But whatever, I knew he didn't mean it. H has never been able to say no to the mighty dollar. If the money's there to be made, he's on it immediately.

Anyway, regarding the D, I want to sell the house, which the kids and I are still in for now, but with the way the market is, he doesn't want to. So I want him to buy me out then, which he doesn't want to do either because that would mean having to give me more money from his half.

So.....it just all makes me wonder why? Why should I believe him? Why should I trust him or even try to?

After all that's been said and done, it's hard not to feel like I'm a mistake. I was a mistake in his life, and I turned out to be an expensive one, all because I was living my dream of being a housewife and a mother, and the whole time, H wasn't living his.

A few times, he was looking for something, and he was looking for it elsewhere. There's something he wants or needs, and if it's something that has to come from someone other than himself, then I don't think I'm the one who can give it to him. Otherwise, he wouldn't have strayed, right?

I just have soooo many doubts. I'm not even sure why I'm really here posting this. It's something I have to figure out on my own.

As I told H, I am open to spending time together again and seeing where it leads. But what I didn't tell him is that I don't know if this is what I want. I wonder if I've reached the point of no return. It's strange to think that I originally wanted this M to work, that I didn't want the D, and H was the one who wanted out. He left and never made an attempt to come back even when he said he wanted to reconcile.

But now, it's me who feels like getting out.

Just really confused.

[NoCodeBlues]

U,

I think it's only natural to ask yourself those questions. We, the LBS, put up with so much hurt, so much hostile, hateful talk from our WAS -- and then once we decide we can no longer take any more, when we finally try to move forward without our insane loved ones, ironically, do they sometimes see the light. Just as we've given up hope and started moving away from the "line of reconciliation" do they start moving towards it.

And the problem is that the hurt is still there, and we're not so trusting anymore. And now they are the ones pursuing or begging or pleading or trying to rebuild the bridges.

Is it too late? Only you can tell. I will say this: remember what it feels like to be the one who is put in that place, of struggling to find your way back and to appeal to the spouse. Be the bigger person, and don't return unkind feelings, even if you have suffered them. I'm not suggesting you take them back, or not take them back. I suggest you take it slow and calmly. The onus to make a new R and make it work is now on them. Help them where you can, but without enabling them. Be cautious; trust but verify. I really think if they prove sincere they will accept MC as a solution, at least eventually.

The thing is, whatever you do, don't "flip the switch"; think long and hard but don't harden your heart. You are better than that, because you are the one who fought for your marriage at first.

Blessings.

[karen43]

I'm a little empathetic to your H if he has had or has depression and the problems it can cause with marriage b/c that happened to me and basically part of the reason at least why my H started his affair, he was unhappy with the way I was acting after I had been depressed for several years. It is difficult to live/be married to a depressed person I know (and to be a depressed person). I have been getting counseling and have started on AD's though and it has made a world of difference in my life.

I can understand why you would be hesitant to live with someone that you think has depression issues, maybe you could try talking with him about that and see if he would consider AD's at least? Would he talk to his doctor about that?

It also sounds like he some anger issues also, my H has them also. I think my H says stuff that he doesn't mean half the time when he is angry, and it sounds like your H might be like this too. My H is going to counseling for that so I am hoping that will help, because of course it is still really upsetting though, and as you say hard to forgive and forget. I guess as you say, you have to figure it out on your own...Karen43

[GoingForward]

NCB and Karen, thanks to you both for your feedback and understanding. It helps a lot, especially in knowing that I'm not completely alone, and that others out there are able to understand why I possibly feel the way I do.

I've tried my hardest and done my best (at least I think so) to not flip the switch, as you say, NCB. I've always told myself that whatever happens, the one thing I do not want to become is bitter and resentful, which I must admit is easier said than done. Sometimes I'm successful at letting things go. Other times, I'm not so good at it.

I have every intention of taking things slow. In fact, H and I both agreed on it, but that seems to have become a bit of an issue. Twice in the last few weeks, H wanted to get sexual. Not exactly my idea of taking it slow. Anyhow, the first time, ok, it happened. The second, I made up an excuse so it wouldn't happen again. I wouldn't necessarily say that I regretted the first time; I just felt like it shouldn't have happened. Way too soon for me, I guess. I felt so.....what are the right words?......unemotionally detached. I remember H kissing me, quite passionately, and as he was leading me down the hallway to the bedroom, I grabbed for the side of a doorframe, thinking I wanted to stop this before we reached the bedroom, but then I let go, reluctantly. I didn't want to disappoint H either, which was the vibe I got from him when I didn't come through the second time, although he said it was ok when I asked if he was mad.

I believe that H wants to take the R slow, but I also believe that he wants sex when he wants it, and then afterwards, he would like to be on his way. Cliche, right? He wants to have his cake and eat it, too. I don't like that feeling of being used when two years ago he did it to me before. Once, after we S'ed, H came over after being away on business, and we ended up having sex. During a later talk, H admitted he used me because he "was horny". I was so disgusted with him, and probably even more with myself, and never let him touch me again after that, until a few weeks ago. Again, reluctantly.

Anyway.

As for talking with H about the possibility of using ADs - it's not likely to happen. Several times I have tried talking to him about it (counseling, too), but he just will not agree to it. He will not. H has always been a person who does what he wants, when he wants, however he wants, and no one is going to advise or tell him otherwise. He'll listen to what you have to say and thank you for it. He'll acknowledge your point of view or tell you that you're a complete idiot, but either way, he's still going to go about things his own way.

This weekend was a prime example of just that! I'm out of time for now, so I'll write about it later.

Thanks again for your replies!