She's gone...I'm devastated, but hopeful

[LoginName]

so many people go through their lives missing the opportunities to learn and grow. You've been given one. You're accepting it.

The lessons, from my perspective, aren't always clear. They are subtle and ineffible. But they are real too, and profound.

So what can a 25 yr old tell you? :-) At 25 I would have been much more black and white. If she doesn't want you, move on, or make her talk about it and confront the situation and resolve it. I wouldn't say those things now.

I think I've been slipping into my old ways of thinking. I need to start thinking like she's gone again. Maybe this lesson doesn't stop. GAL!!! I stopped for a while. Need to get back to it.

Good luck MM, embrace it, live it, learn.

[minkerman]

I was in the shower this morning and thought I heard the phone ring. Came out, a beep on the machine but no message. I *69'd the number and it was W.

Called her back, had a nice conversation, very upbeat, talked about the book I'm reading...she told me I should read 7 Habits, she thinks I would get a lot out of it. So, that's next on the list.

I think it's very nice that she called me, pretty much out of the blue. I won't get too excited but it is, I think, a good sign.

[minkerman]

Wow, quite a morning. I don't know WHAT to expect at this point, so I'll keep the expectations at zero.

She called me again, this time at work. I'll spare everyone the details, but the main thing was she said she wrote 4 pages in her journal after I left her place on Sunday. She said her head is in a "weird space". I asked her why, she said it was after I spent 6 hours with her. She said it in a nice, positive way. I told her that if we get back together, it will be a new marriage with the same (but better) people, and she agreed that yes we know each other's shortcomings, as compared to starting up with new people. I said, "so you have some thinking to do". She said "yes, and that's what this has been all about. Giving me space to think."

She is phoning me tonight at 9pm. I can't wait to talk more.

I won't start wagging my tail yet, but this has been a huge step forward today.

[LoginName]

yeah, you know MM, there is almost always a set back. Take it easy. It won't happen as fast or in the manner you hope. Relax. Like you said, NO expectations.

[minkerman]

Well LN, you and I were both right. No real shifts yet except we talked about how we have both changed and become better people and a new marriage would be healthier than the one we left. She hinted that she's leaning that way but doesn't want to falsely lead me on until she knows for sure. She did tell me directly that her #1 fear is that if we get back together, we would slide back to the way we were. I asked her "what would be the incentive in that?" We have both become better, more honest people, and there is no reward for backsliding. We have seen the downside and it is not pretty. Anyway, a fairly neutral phone call, leaning toward positive. That's it for tonight.

[LoginName]

Hi MM,
It's kind of encouraging that nothing dramatic happened either way. It also sounds familiar. My W was afraid things would slip back to the way they were. I'm afraid things will go back to the way they were.

Have you gone to any counseling, or MC for both of you? I ask because my W and I did. In the last or next to last session, I brought up this point, fear of returning to the way it was, and our C told us it won't happen, that we won't let it happen. We are now both aware and can take action to fix and change it.

Something I've noticed is that my life, my R, my W, may all seem 99% the same now as before, but the changes can be real and profound. The change is more internal than external.

Here's a thought. Do you think you or she could go a complete day without comunicating? I'm not saying you should, but it may be interesting.

It looks like your watchword now is patience, even more so than detach. So good luck, have patience

[minkerman]

No, we haven't done any counseling at this point...she says her issue is not one that counseling would help (being alone with her thoughts to get clarity). She knows her options, she is a very intelligent woman. She is just very afraid to make the wrong choice, and she felt that staying home would not allow her to push the reset button, as it were.

I am thinking about IC to help me with my "bad days". I am concerned that I awaken at 3am every day and start right in with the racing thoughts. I have always been a good sleeper.

Last time she contacted me was when I did exactly as you suggest. I didn't contact her at all for a day or maybe two days. I opened up to her quite a bit last night, I think pulling back is a very good idea.

Thanks for your continual support, LN.

[minkerman]

Well I am doing pretty good not contacting her. I went out to a movie with my son last night, saw "The Bucket List". Don't listen to the critics, it is a very good movie that makes you think about the important things in your life.

Not a word from W.

I am thinking about something she said when I saw her Sunday. I asked why she so seldom initiates contact. She said, believe it or not I don't really think about "us" that much in the course of a normal day. Then she said "sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear right now"....not in a cold way, actually she said it sadly.

She also said:
- I'm really enjoying this time
- The tightness in my back and shoulders has disappeared
- I am sleeping long hours VS waking up at 3am when I was at home

Believe none of what you hear? That can be hard when you hear stuff like that.

[Broken Tree]

Minkerman,

It is amazing what comes out of their mouths. I am sure they don't mean any of it but are trying to release their pain in your direction to make them feel better. I am truly sorry you had to hear that.

BT

[minkerman]

We shared about 3 phone calls and 6 emails yesterday, mostly to do with her telling me what's going on at work. I also put my car up for sale and have started the process of listing the boat. Not because we're starting to liquidate anything, it's just that we have agreed that boating had too much of a stranglehold on our life and probably contributed to our problems.

I have an Audi convertible and I just don't feel right driving it feeling the way I feel now about myself. It seems so pretentious and not in harmony with how I see myself since going though this process. I know now that I was a self-esteem mess and the fancy car was just a way of compensating for it. I want to go back to my roots and buy a Jeep.

So I told her all this, and she emailed me "wow...
send me a pic of what you want to buy for the new outdoorsy dude you are going back to being " Nice comment on my changes, I think, and the little happy face is a good sign.

I was invited out to dinner last night at the home of some good friends of W and I. Right before I left, she emailed me
"Have fun and say hi to my friends "
The little sad face tells me she is sad that I am seeing them and she's not.

I am going to email her today and let her know that her mail is starting to pile up at home. I will ask her how she would like me to get it to her, without sounding like I'm pursuing. Any suggestions?

The amount of pursuing I am doing right now doesn't seem to be hurting the situation, she is being very sweet and we are communicating, and she even makes the odd comment about "if we end up back together". I am walking a fine line, I know, and I am very aware of pushing the envelope if things seem to be going well. I guess those are the times I should pull back.