She says it's over - Part 23

[DadNotQuitting]

Today's events.......

I emailed W's attorney last night, cc'd to her, regarding my proposal to completely change the holiday visitation schedule to make it better on everyone. I received a resonse from her, indirectly through her attorney, that it is all fine with her. No arguement, not battle, nothing; just fine. OK, that's good, that's cooperative....

In another email from her, she stated (in response to my question) that she would be happy to take the kids out to purchase Christmas presents for me. I told her I was doing that for her (from them). That did surprise me.... I said that I would of course advance the money for it. She also stated though, that she wanted them to pick out gifts that I wanted and needed, as opposed to "wasting" money on things that I might not find useful. She said she was trying to teach the children that materialism didn't matter and they don't need everything they want. Uh, this is the woman that I have documented to have spent about $100,000 in about four months this summer on.......I don't know what. I'll give her the BIG benefit of the doubt and try to hope that it is a hard lesson learned. Who knows.

I went to Nordstrom today and spent some time with the girl that picks out all my clothes. She's 26 and my W knows that I've always found her attractive, and frankly, I think it's a two-way street. That's another story. Anyway....I selected a bunch of stuff for her to hold, and said that my W would come in with the kids to pick out what to buy me. I did say that I would tell my W (who she has sold stuff to for a few years) that I simply called her in order to have her set stuff aside for me based on what I like. Why? I want my W to re-live the experience of going out to the mall and taking the kids to buy me things for Christmas. Yep - manipulating and I don't care. Is what it is.

With the re-negotiated visitation schedule, I'm having the kids today after school until 7:30, and left it open where the exchange is to take place; either at the designated grocery store parking lot, or on house away from mine, which she has been doing lately. So ten minutes before I'm to pick up the kids, and I didn't know if it was our two, or Ss10 as well, she calls me..... She said that Ss10 does not have basketball practice today, and if he had, she intended to bring him over afterwards. So now, she wants to know if I'd pick up all three, to which I said "of course, I'd love to". I asked her about the drop off location, and for whatever reason, she said to have the kids call her at 7:00 to figure it out.

So about an hour in, Ss10 tells me that he is supposed to wear dress slacks, shirt and shoes to the winter concert tomorrow at school. Great. He doesn't have this sort of clothing, but two hours (and $250) later, he does thanks to my girl at Nordstrom. Funny, he picked out a pretty cool tie (not required, but I dig) and some shoes that are exactly like the ones I was wearing. A good boy, indeed. I bring him home and iron the two shirts he bought (couldn't decide on black or white, so we got both, and will put them to good use in the future), while he called mom to find out that she will again pick them up near my house instead of the parking lot at the grocery store. To me, this shows that she is totally comfortable being in close proximity to me.

At the pickup, I actually reached into her car and hung up the shirts and pants, plus put another bag into the car. In that bag were two very nice shirts that I had recently purchased (Hugo Boss and Ike Behar - must haves...), but haven't unpackaged. Why? I put them in gift boxes and want her to have the kids give them to me for Christmas, along with the other stuff. And.....I want W to see, once again, that I've completely changed my wardrobe to include stuff I absolutely did not wear a year ago. The Ike Behar shirt has a cool design, in velvet, that is absolutely stunning (and for about $200, it better be). Point is, I'm shoving down her throat all my changes, and sometimes with little subtelty.

OK, along with the shirts was an envelope containing $1,100 in cash. I had promised, via email, that I would give her money to buy the kids some Christmas presents. A note said that $750 was for the kids and $350 was for them to buy my stuff from Nordstrom. I said that if the Nordstrom items went over $350, I would make up for it immediately.

Go ahead and say it......I'm buying her, I don't know, "new-found attitude". So f'n what!!! Look, I have gone eight months without one single damn positive signal, and now I've had about ten in just the last week. I will reward good behavior. This seems to be working for me, so I'll keep doing it. Right or wrong, it is having some results. All situations are different. If she said she wanted me to pay her $500 for each counseling session she attended, hell, I'd do it as long as the counselor told me she was participative.

One more note; I told W (written on an envelope with money in it last week) that the kids wanted to take her out earlier this week for a birthday dinner. I found out today that they all went out for a casual meal. Why mention this? Well, it is the only time in our entire separation that she has taken the kids out for a dinner. Me? I've taken them out dozens of times. I do find this intriguing to say the least. Maybe, just maybe, she's starting to feel some of the changes, some of her consequences.

[lawless]

OK DNQ,

I'll say it. You're buying her. I don't see a problem with it as long as it's affordable, the peace and cooperation is worth it IMHO.
I see you're forcing her to see the changes you've made as well, I think she sees them anyway but at least now you know for a fact that she is even if she won't acknowledge them, that in itself should give you some peace of mind I hope.

I have been guilty lately of "buying" my STBXW as well. I've been giving her $$$ so she can buy the kids clothes and things, this is a 180 from what I've done over the last year and I have to admit that getting her to take on some responsibility as far as shopping and spending time with the kids has been a load off my shoulders. It has also brought some peace into the sitch as well, I've had only one spew in the last 4 months, I met it head on with some spew of my own and hung up on her, I got a call an hour from a crying STBXW apologizing for her spew.

My attitude is getting better daily and there is a new level of co parenting now, it's taken nearly 2 years to get to this point but I feel better than I have for those years and we are actually getting along better than we have as well.

You are doing so much better and it certainly is showing, I bet she sees it too.

Try to have a good X-mas DNQ.

[AmyC]

I think this would be a good thing for you to become involved in, if you don't mind me saying so, DNQ:

Secret Santa

[Just_Me]

I think this would be a good thing for you to become involved in, if you don't mind me saying so, DNQ:

And now it's my turn to agree with AmyC. The kids might learn something even more useful by seeing a little philanthropy. Maybe pick some gifts off one of those trees where poor kids ask for underwear and socks, rather than $200 shirts.

[DadNotQuitting]

And now it's my turn to agree with AmyC. The kids might learn something even more useful by seeing a little philanthropy. Maybe pick some gifts off one of those trees where poor kids ask for underwear and socks, rather than $200 shirts.

FYI, my kids, my wife and I do contribute every year. The norm is to deliver a lot of new toys, often times $1,000 or so worth, to a local "receiving home" that takes in children who have been taken away from their parents and are waiting to be placed in foster care. I just got the kids tonight, and on our agenda tomorrow is to purchase more toys for these unfortunate children. Our experience is that they never, ever worry about receiving the toys "last minute", given that they sometimes receive children into their program under the same terms.

$200 shirts aside [and the$1,000 leather coat I bought for my own Christmas present last night..... (: ], my kids are fully cogizant that there are many children that have much, much less than they do, and delight in picking out toys for them.

Thanks for the insight. We could all do more, no doubt about it.

[NewHorizons]

DNQ,

Update?

NH

[25yearsmlc]

Dear DNQ,

have not read your whole sitch. Don't know all the facts or who to "blame/fix", etc. But calling your spouse names in front of the kids during a divorce is called "parental alienation". It hurts the cause of the cusser, so to speak. (So, I guess if you want to call her a $%^&*I(*&^!!!, you have to stay married..)

Anyhow, take the high road and you'll never regret it. I'll go finish your thread now, but wanted to mention that. Take care, hang in there,
j-

[25yearsmlc]

Dear DNQ,

have not read your whole sitch. Don't know all the facts or who to "blame/fix", etc. But calling your spouse names in front of the kids during a divorce is called "parental alienation". It hurts the cause of the cusser, so to speak. (So, I guess if you want to call her a $%^&*I(*&^!!!, you have to stay married..)

Anyhow, take the high road and you'll never regret it. I'll go finish your thread now, but wanted to mention that. Take care, hang in there,
j-

[25yearsmlc]

DNQ,

I've read most of your thread, at least this thread. On one hand, "buying" your w could be enabling her to avoid the reality that a D would cause. Yeah, that's a point. But on the other hand, you are getting some results and she's not stupid ( I assume) so she knows at some level, a D will lower her income and lifestyle.

You know, whether it's great sex, loneliness, and or money, as long as it gets a WAS to return and TRY to make the M work, then who cares what the triggering event was?

For me, all three contributed to my willingness to take my H back, and of course the fact that I did indeed still love him, and felt a bonding loyalty to him.
And regardless of all the terrible things we both said, (I think I held my tongue better than he did, but there I go - keeping score...a bad bad idea) I knew we had and have a real connection. We're in "piecing" and I think we'll make it another 26 years. But About 12-15 months ago last year, I'd have said, there was maybe a 10-15% chance of us being together up here. But we are. Why? The single biggest thing that helped was DBing and their coaching. I saw other therapists, shopped around with H and he never liked any until the last one, who was a macho type male and a DB supporter. The DB coaches are specific in their advice and that was sometimes just what I needed, not just venting, if you kwim.

So The DBing helped, as did A LOT of forgiveness work on MY end. Someday soon, he may need to do that as well. (I found Marianne Williamson's books on forgiveness and her book "Return to Love", was VERY helpful. A bit too modern for some, but spiritually helpful to me, and intelligently written)). You may wish to work on that because your anger and pain will surface at the most inconvenient times, if you don't deal with them. Of course, when you are dealing with your anger, it CANNOT BE DONE IN FRONT OF HER because you want to prove to her that anger isn't an issue anymore. Vent here, not with her or the kids.
You have to be upbeat, positive, whenever you see her or are with the kids. Remember that the kids report back on what a great time they had with you.

Also, DNQ, remember this: NO WOMAN IS UNMOVED BY THE LOVING INTERACTION BETWEEN HER CHILDREN AND THEIR FATHER/STEPFATHER. Heck, for me, seeing my h and our children playing, or him teaching them something, just being "with" them and bonding well, is like emotional foreplay. Sometimes more than emotional. I know women who've stayed with men almost SOLELY because they're good dads, and I know women who've divorced b/c their husbands were lousy fathers.

You are doing the right thing, as long as purchasing things for the kids takes a distant second place to actually interacting with them, helping with homework, playing catch, hearing their school stories no matter how trivial it may seem to you, it's their lives. I read a book on "Why Daughter's Need Fathers", and some books on Fatherhood. I was trying to reach my MLC H at the time, but the books were great for ME to read anyhow.

And in one story they reported that a dad needed to cancel a trip to a Dodgers game with his son that they had planned for weeks. The father was offered a $1,000.00 for a speaking event that would likely boost his career a great deal. So he told his son the situation, and offered the son a choice; He'd give his son the $1,000.00!! as a trade for missing the game. The son replied, "No thanks, I'd rather go to the game with you." Down deep, kids want to know they're loved by their parents and gifts/money CAN be a symbol, but time together is the real thing.
Kids get this better than we do sometimes.

Time is something we cannot accumulate, or quantify and yet, we KNOW it is finite. It is the most important thing NOT to waste. I have 5 brothers. One of them is kind, but he doesn't "get" his 16 year old d. WHen he has her, he invites her cousins or an expensive IPOD or game but never once got on the floor to play with her when she was little, and he seems to need buffer zone people b/c he can't talk well with her. He's been an absentee dad who sends expensive gifts, like a generous uncle. He's missed more than he'll ever know. Her stepfather is the one who has been there for her when she was sick, or sang a solo in the school play. I'll never understand my brother's choices. But I think I understand yours.

You're doing so many things right, I just want to encourage you in all this. Making the kids the priority is, in a way, making the M a priority b/c they're so interrelated.

Keep posting here, venting HERE, seeing the mc, etc. At the very least, you'll have good R's with your children, and that's worth a fortune in the "real" world.
I love it when a man steps up to the plate for his kids, AND his step kids. For me, a "recovering feminist", that defines "Manly" behavior. You just keep it up and you'll never have regrets. Keep on keeping on... hope this helps.
(( j- ))

[25yearsmlc]

DNQ,

I've read most of your thread, at least this thread. On one hand, "buying" your w could be enabling her to avoid the reality that a D would cause. Yeah, that's a point. But on the other hand, you are getting some results and she's not stupid ( I assume) so she knows at some level, a D will lower her income and lifestyle.

You know, whether it's great sex, loneliness, and or money, as long as it gets a WAS to return and TRY to make the M work, then who cares what the triggering event was?

For me, all three contributed to my willingness to take my H back, and of course the fact that I did indeed still love him, and felt a bonding loyalty to him.
And regardless of all the terrible things we both said, (I think I held my tongue better than he did, but there I go - keeping score...a bad bad idea) I knew we had and have a real connection. We're in "piecing" and I think we'll make it another 26 years. But About 12-15 months ago last year, I'd have said, there was maybe a 10-15% chance of us being together up here. But we are. Why? The single biggest thing that helped was DBing and their coaching. I saw other therapists, shopped around with H and he never liked any until the last one, who was a macho type male and a DB supporter. The DB coaches are specific in their advice and that was sometimes just what I needed, not just venting, if you kwim.

So The DBing helped, as did A LOT of forgiveness work on MY end. Someday soon, he may need to do that as well. (I found Marianne Williamson's books on forgiveness and her book "Return to Love", was VERY helpful. A bit too modern for some, but spiritually helpful to me, and intelligently written)). You may wish to work on that because your anger and pain will surface at the most inconvenient times, if you don't deal with them. Of course, when you are dealing with your anger, it CANNOT BE DONE IN FRONT OF HER because you want to prove to her that anger isn't an issue anymore. Vent here, not with her or the kids.
You have to be upbeat, positive, whenever you see her or are with the kids. Remember that the kids report back on what a great time they had with you.

Also, DNQ, remember this: NO WOMAN IS UNMOVED BY THE LOVING INTERACTION BETWEEN HER CHILDREN AND THEIR FATHER/STEPFATHER. Heck, for me, seeing my h and our children playing, or him teaching them something, just being "with" them and bonding well, is like emotional foreplay. Sometimes more than emotional. I know women who've stayed with men almost SOLELY because they're good dads, and I know women who've divorced b/c their husbands were lousy fathers.

You are doing the right thing, as long as purchasing things for the kids takes a distant second place to actually interacting with them, helping with homework, playing catch, hearing their school stories no matter how trivial it may seem to you, it's their lives. I read a book on "Why Daughter's Need Fathers", and some books on Fatherhood. I was trying to reach my MLC H at the time, but the books were great for ME to read anyhow.

And in one story they reported that a dad needed to cancel a trip to a Dodgers game with his son that they had planned for weeks. The father was offered a $1,000.00 for a speaking event that would likely boost his career a great deal. So he told his son the situation, and offered the son a choice; He'd give his son the $1,000.00!! as a trade for missing the game. The son replied, "No thanks, I'd rather go to the game with you." Down deep, kids want to know they're loved by their parents and gifts/money CAN be a symbol, but time together is the real thing.
Kids get this better than we do sometimes.

Time is something we cannot accumulate, or quantify and yet, we KNOW it is finite. It is the most important thing NOT to waste. I have 5 brothers. One of them is kind, but he doesn't "get" his 16 year old d. WHen he has her, he invites her cousins or an expensive IPOD or game but never once got on the floor to play with her when she was little, and he seems to need buffer zone people b/c he can't talk well with her. He's been an absentee dad who sends expensive gifts, like a generous uncle. He's missed more than he'll ever know. Her stepfather is the one who has been there for her when she was sick, or sang a solo in the school play. I'll never understand my brother's choices. But I think I understand yours.

You're doing so many things right, I just want to encourage you in all this. Making the kids the priority is, in a way, making the M a priority b/c they're so interrelated.

Keep posting here, venting HERE, seeing the mc, etc. At the very least, you'll have good R's with your children, and that's worth a fortune in the "real" world.
I love it when a man steps up to the plate for his kids, AND his step kids. For me, a "recovering feminist", that defines "Manly" behavior. You just keep it up and you'll never have regrets. Keep on keeping on... hope this helps.
(( j- ))