I wanted to post an update on my situation (find the link to my story in my signature at the bottom of this post).
I have had pneumonia (yuck) over the last week, so I haven't been on at all.
H and I have been working really hard at making things work. The thing I have going for me, at least, is that H is very repentant and seems truly mortified by the person he'd become. He is going to a 9-month SAA workshop in an effort to really work the steps and figure out what the depths of his demons are.
As before, we have a 1-year committment. I have pledged to him that I will work very hard on the M for one year. At the end of the year, I'll assess and see if I want to recommit for any longer period. And I've made it clear that I will only stick around so long as I see him really, really working on himself and on our marriage. So far, 3 months after I made that statement, he's stuck to it like glue. Even going above and beyond on several instances.
I can't say that I haven't got fears and flashbacks and some real concerns about the future, but at this point, we're working and working.
We've been doing something that I read about called "ritualizing." That means we've been creating marriage rituals. So, each morning, we go upstairs to the religious altar in my home and we both sit and meditate in front of it for 10 minutes. We have a date night every week. We have a weekly "business" meeting where we discuss our weekly dinner menu, our budget, when and where our date night is going to be, and other social activities. It's been really great at keeping us centered on the marriage and on our goals. We assess things for the week prior and make plans for the coming week. It really helps us feel like we are building together towards a dream. So far, so good.
Things are looking hopeful and we are still visiting our C almost every week. H goes to two SAA meetings a week (on weeknights) so that keeps him pretty busy.
Regards, ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
so glad to hear that~! and how great your H participates in the rituals, I can see how that tactic can bring you emotional intimacy. Good for you both!
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
ntl, I am proud of you, and H too. A lot of courage on both of your parts. I resonate very much to this structured approach to marriage repair, it is similiar in spirit to the Reconciliation Agreement in my own breached M. The good thing about a formal agreement is that it gives a measurable response -- how well is each partner holding to his/her small committments? If there is a lapse in any of the conditions by either of the partners it can be immediately addressed -- and should be. In my experience there was much to be learned about the marriage relationship from going after a lapse, not letting it go by when it would have been easy to let it go by, there was a significant leap in healing that arose from this, so I urge you to be serious about keeping to the small agreements you and H have made, as well as the large ones. It really does keep the two of you on track and moving forward. This doesn't means it's easy, just do-able.
Please keep giving updates, I'm really interested to see how this plays out for you and I wish you all the best.
Things are still moving along. H and I are working very hard at communicating. We had an incident this weekend before our Super Bowl party regarding something silly (isn't it always?!) that we just couldn't see eye-to-eye on. Our typical pattern: He makes a statement, I take a differing position. He says, fine, we'll do it your way. I feel bad and say fine we'll do it your way. Meanwhile, we're both attached to our original positions. We just decide not to fight it for fear of making the other mad or looking like the bad guy.
This time we had a breakthrough, though. We were able to talk about the root of what resulted in our different positions was, and we were able to find common ground. We talked it over, made a decision, and the rest of the day was salvaged with no hurt feelings, no upset, and a renewed sense of togetherness.
I have to say, H has been really impressing me with his desire to really get to the root of himself and his (as he calls them) demons. He's been going to individual C and joint C, he's been doing the regular SAA meetings every Tues. and the 9 month intensive SAA workshop every Thurs. He's been really focusing on getting his heart and soul right and living the values he says he's always had, but lost sight of.
You know, appleroad shared a story with me that got me to do a lot of research, and got H to do a lot of thinking. He doesn't really believe he has a true addiction like many of the members do, but he does feel he turned to porn, chat line, A's to meet some need he had for immediate gratification. And because he found that those things were easy ways to hit that dopamine receptor and get that high feeling, they certainly became a tool he turned to. So, it was a compulsion for sure, but not sure it is an addiction. H does feel that he's getting something good out of these sessions, so he keeps going. He feels the chance to really look at himself is a good enough reason.
Anyway, things are still moving along well.
BTW...anyone ever had any experience with Rational Recovery? Just wondering...
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
Thanks for the update, ntl. I've been wondering how it's going for you & H. It sounds very positive, like you are coming back from a tough experience together, both of you working very hard.
Originally Posted By: ntl
BTW...anyone ever had any experience with Rational Recovery?
This rings a bell with me, I might have run across this when I was doing research into SA. Is it a commercial program, ntl? This is my own bias speaking here, but generally I shy away from these although I know they probably do some good for some people -- but at a price -- and the knowledge is already in the public realm. What does your SA therapist have to say about it?
'Addiction' is an interesting topic to reflect on. It's a medical term with a specific narrow definition -- in medical parlance, 'addiction' is to a substance to which the person develops a 'tolerance', so that higher and higher doses of the substance are required in order to achieve the same 'high'. Tolerance is the reason why alcoholics end up taking in so much alcohol that they develop liver failure, and why hard drug addicts end by taking a lethal dose of the drug. This is something to think about when you & H are wondering if he's really SA, really addicted to the dopamine high.
But even if he isn't, I can't help but think that the SA meeting structure is being helpful to H. It gives him the experience of having significant sharing relationships with men, instead of having emotional needs met by OW, and of being in both a learning and a compassionate place with men. Also, I couldn't help but wonder about the idea of you attending the SA group for wives of SA, just as a way of sharing the experience with H, of entering his world and demonstrating to him that you are willing to enter his world. It could be very healing.
This rings a bell with me, I might have run across this when I was doing research into SA. Is it a commercial program, ntl? This is my own bias speaking here, but generally I shy away from these although I know they probably do some good for some people -- but at a price -- and the knowledge is already in the public realm. What does your SA therapist have to say about it?
Hiya...I think this is a commercial program. Based on their website they are very anti AA type programs. H heard about it through our C who said another one of her clients was using it to great effect so I just wondered. I was a little put off by the website because it sounds so....angry. I don't know, but that doesn't seem very conducive to any kind of healing recovery. But I don't want to judge either, so I was looking for experiences.
Originally Posted By: appleroad
'Addiction' is an interesting topic to reflect on. It's a medical term with a specific narrow definition -- in medical parlance, 'addiction' is to a substance to which the person develops a 'tolerance', so that higher and higher doses of the substance are required in order to achieve the same 'high'. Tolerance is the reason why alcoholics end up taking in so much alcohol that they develop liver failure, and why hard drug addicts end by taking a lethal dose of the drug. This is something to think about when you & H are wondering if he's really SA, really addicted to the dopamine high.
I agree with you. We aren't really sure, but we think there was definitely an element there that he just couldn't turn away from. He has found it (thus far) very easy to abstain from his "inner circle" behaviors, but that may be because his drive to succeed with the M and with his personal growth is so high right now. I have been very supportive and very loving in his quest, so that's probably helping. Prior to me starting to DB, I was very angry and very short with him all the time. He's the type that needs a lot of affirmation and support, so I could also be filling that need he was getting filled from the acting out.
Originally Posted By: appleroad
But even if he isn't, I can't help but think that the SA meeting structure is being helpful to H. It gives him the experience of having significant sharing relationships with men, instead of having emotional needs met by OW, and of being in both a learning and a compassionate place with men.
I'm right there wih you. I think he's been uncovering some really deeply hidden parts of him that have both shocked and dismayed him. He's also starting to realize that some of the character traits he thought were strengths (people-pleasing, easy-going nature) may be what led to some of his behaviors. He was so focused on keeping everything on an even keel that he suppressed a lot of his emotions. Eventually, he needed an outlet. Our relationship had deteriorated to the point that I wasn't willing to be that outlet and so he indulged the very basest parts of his nature. He subsequently felt deep shame and remorse over those acts, but also very stimulated by them, and so, in his shame, kept doing them. He soon developed almost an alter-ego. It's almost impossible to believe this double life he'd created for himself. And the confusion and balancing of it was literally making him crazy and killing his life.
Originally Posted By: appleroad
Also, I couldn't help but wonder about the idea of you attending the SA group for wives of SA, just as a way of sharing the experience with H, of entering his world and demonstrating to him that you are willing to enter his world. It could be very healing.
You know, I tried this, appleroad. And my experience was scary. The women were so negative and were so bashing. It was like they were waiting for their H's to trip up and the whole meeting was about H's slipping back in to old behaviors. It was as if the addiction became another member of the relationship for these women. It was the hidden monster in the room that everyone pretended to ignore, but would jump out and disturb the peace everytime someone was off-kilter. Perhaps it was just the dynamic of the meeting I visited, but I was very put off.
As always, I so appreciate and encourage your comments to me. They really help me so much to figure out what I am thinking.
I am cautious, I am trying.
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
ntl, I want to tell you how much I admire you for hanging in there with H, he's really a very lucky man to have someone like you on his side. I also admire you for your emotional control. This is a very contentious issue, and carefully hidden and also denied. And yet so common. Mary Anne Layden in her article on the effects of pornography (written a few years ago) said there were 80 SAA meetings in the Delaware Valley alone (pop. 6 million)
I'm sorry you don't have anyone other than me to discuss this with right now, I'm kind of groping my way through this issue, wondering still how exactly it affects my sitch. I learned enough by reading to know that porn really does a number on men and affects their primary relationship, often rendering them impotent with their partner (and we obligingly come to the rescue by believing there's something wrong with us that our husbands are not sexually attracted to us -- typical!) Let me tell you, now that H no longer has a PC/access to porn he is plenty interested, and also is no longer sniffing around OP looking for action.
I had some conversation on another forum with a woman married to a high profile trial lawyer (both in their 50's) who was convinced that her H was SA because he had multiple EMA's throughout the course of the marriage. She mentioned in passing that another lawyer in the law firm had been promoted to partner and the whole office was celebrating by going out after work to a strip club. I asked her why she hadn't confronted H on this behavior and drew so much criticism from other LBS it was remarkable -- this was supposed to be 'normal', it was going too far to require husbands to abstain from strip clubs or porn.
[quote=ntl
...they are very anti AA type programs.
...my experience was scary. The women were so negative and were so bashing. It was like they were waiting for their H's to trip up and the whole meeting was about H's slipping back in to old behaviors... ...Perhaps it was just the dynamic of the meeting I visited, but I was very put off.
[/quote]
I also got that idea from reading about the Rational Recovery program. I got the idea the main selling point for this program was that it got the person away from having to deal with the 12-step program. But I dunno, ntl. The 12-step programs were the only thing that really worked with alcoholics. And I think 'having to deal' is part of the deal. But on the other hand, your therapist seemed to feel OK about Rational Recovery.
Good for you, ntl, for going to the wives group -- you really are doing everything you can to help with H's recovery. It sounds like it was a harrowing experience. I have read about the phenonemon of 'a sick meeting' -- I attended Al-Anon meetings for awhile, the program for family of alcoholics, my father was an alcoholic -- and the advice was that if you were pretty uncomfortable in a meeting to seek out another one.
Keep updating, I'm interested in this topic and am happy to discuss it with you.
