Inviting hokiness in my life

[Dom R]

Karen... if you were married to a doctor... and you somehow ran across something in a medical manual that said that some behaviour of his was harmful to himself...

would you show him the manual, and ask him about it?

or would you just say to himself, "well, HE's a doctor, he knows SOO much more than I do, I wont even bother bringing it up".

If you chose the second course of action, I would say that would be uncaring about your husband.

would you agree?

[Corri]

Okay. Karen. I love everyone here, too. As we all do.

But I can't think of any reason why I'd be with any of you, other than to b!tch.

Think about that one. If we had nothing to b!tch about, we'd have nothing to say to one another. There would be no reason... to be in one another's lives, would there?

Yeah... we hear about Lil's ankle, RJ's trip to Isreal.... even Mojo's complaints about her 50 Os... it is still 'framed' in the neg. We come together in the Kaveetch.

We do not come together in the spirit of 'finding.' We come together in the spirit of 'what is missing.'

In the spirit of 'what is there,' we would have nothing to say to one another, but... 'hello.'

This is a forum... of Kaveetch.

No offense. It is necessary to find your way back. But. Do you want to Kaveetch, and stay stuck... or do you want to heal and move on... or not heal and move on... and then heal.

[Lillieperl]

We do not come together in the spirit of 'finding.' We come together in the spirit of 'what is missing.'

In the spirit of 'what is there,' we would have nothing to say to one another, but... 'hello.'

This is a forum... of Kaveetch.

Okay.

You're doing it again. What burr got under your saddle???

I could not disagree more with what you have written above. LIFE is about things we like and things we don't. When I sit around the table at lunch with my colleagues we complain about some things and we also share positive things. That's mostly what people talk about.

I disagree completely that if we stopped complaining, we'd have nothing to talk about. I think healing can go on here just as much as anywhere else. I consider the connections I've made here to be very meaningful and I care about the posters to this forum.

I'm really speechless. What is going on with you that prompted that outburst? It seems to me you've been seething about something for the past couple of months. What is it?

[Corri]

Lil:

I respectfully disagree. By the very nature of this place... we come in at it from 'what is wrong.'

For many... that is a place to begin... to the positive. I am not saying that it is a place of all negative... believe me, I am NOT coming down, or having a bur under my saddle.

There is a time... to move away from this place. Others might speak of it here. Hairdog has certainly done it. Marleto has moved on. Blackfoot. Stig. Honeypot. GEL. Heather. ATLANTADAVE. Aching Man. The Nops. Far more than that. Don't poke at me Lil. I am not saying any ONE person is bad. There is just a time to move on. Karen was only alluding to it.

[SouthernGirl]

"I" never complain.

*grins*

[Lillieperl]

Lots of groups begin because people come at first with their problems: AA for one, church for another. So we come here because of problems and stick around for the fellowship... sounds pretty normal and human to me.

What the he11 do you care if people decide to hang around? What's it to you?

As they say in AA, "don't take someone else's inventory."

[Corri]

Wow. I wasn't. Karen brought it up. I didn't. I wasn't saying... "Get out of here." She said to herself and the board... "maybe I need to move along for a time." Don't take my word for it... go look at her post.

I am happy to take the brunt when it is mine, Lil. I don't see it in this case. You have taken many breaks from the board, as have others. You want to come down on me, have at it. I'm not taking it on this one, honey. EVREYONE needs a break from this place. Sorry. It's truth.

[karen1]

Dom - I've been married to a Doctor. I've been married to an oncologist who SMOKED. I've said, "Hmmm, do you suppose that is a good idea in the face of your knowledge??? No? Okay - I don't like it but you are an adult and your choices are yours." I value my H's otherness much more than you do. It is part of what I like about him and I'm not about to be his judge, Mother or Priest.

I am not chickensh*t to bring stuff up with him I just refuse to do it from anything that is not authentically from me. I believe strongly that my R with God is mine and no one elses. For that reason I don't concern myself with whether being gay is right/wrong or whether other kinds of personal decisions are a sin or not. If it doesn't hurt others directly then it is between YOU and God. One could argue that the lack of sex in our marriage hurts but does it really?? Maybe H thinks he is doing me a kindness by staying married to me despite not wanting to screw me - who knows? I don't really think that but the point is that it just isn't me to say, "Well H, according to the Pope, the Bible, Buddha, the Bhagavahd Gita and the I Ching.................. " I love reading and discussing faith and spirit and all of that but it is in the effort to "remove the log from my own eye" rather than someone elses.

Corri - you may have a point there. I am just in a very different place now. I guess that is why I am having trouble looking very seriously at the very well intentioned suggestions that Dom has provided. He thinks I am just, "Yes, but...." but really I am seeing this whole deal from a totally different perspective. I am past negotiations with H, past waiting for some counselor or book or forum to fix things, I am past even thinking that H will see a few verses in the Bible and don his hair shirt, flagellate himself for dishonoring me so etc.... As I said, maybe it doesn't have as much to do with him as I thought anyway. KWIM????

Lil - I don't think that everyone needs to leave to gain perspective but sometimes people do need to get out of their head and their key boards and live. Like Yoda said, "Try? Do or Do Not. There is no try." If I love my H as I say, if I believe our life together deserves more positive attention then maybe I should stop crying about it all over the place and start things with me. Corri seems to have picked through my recent postings and noticed that I'm in a different place and finding a path that is me. Maybe I can't do it with too many voices in my ear. I don't know.

Karen

[Dom R]

Dom - I've been married to a Doctor. I've been married to an oncologist who SMOKED. I've said, "Hmmm, do you suppose that is a good idea in the face of your knowledge??? No? Okay - I don't like it but you are an adult and your choices are yours."

Absolutely. you brought up the issue to them, and then you let them make their choice, about what they choose to do with their actions.

The thing is... you dont know that your husband has seriously studied those parts of the bible relevant to "husbands, wives, and sex". or, maybe he did 20 years ago, and has completely forgotten about it. The bible's kinda big... it IS possible to forget about parts of it

It seems like you're making an assumption, "my husband has read the relevant passages, has fully considered them, and has already made his choice about them, so they arent useful to me".

I'm suggesting to you that this is an invalid assumption.
You dont know if he has even read them once in the last 10 years. Unless you ask him.

[Lillieperl]

Corri, my apologies... I see now that you were kind of agreeing with and supporting karen. I didn't get that until you explained.

But I still maintain that we would have things to talk about even if we were all getting laid regularly and happily.