The original idea W came up with was a big $$ trip to an exotic location. I'm into that but not ready & I think there are alternatives that would be just as productive within driving distance.
Nice. That's a MAN talking. Women generally rather have men plan the entertainment, AND use good sense about it. I like that although a trip to an exotic location is very appealing to you, and hopefully you'll share those feelings with W, you have the balls to realize and convey that it's not very practical at this point in time. That's solid my friend, and to go on and plan a local trip instead, shows your ability to follow through. That's very good! Mature, manly, strong, and secure.
Keep up the good work!
COG
My Story http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...&Number=660444&page=2#Post660444
In no way was I meaning to attack you, and I'm not "profiling" you as you suggest. I'm really just glad to see that your making strides in that area, and W is responding in a positive light.
You can only make that decision for you, it is your disease and not W's, so she can't carry the burden and it won't ever be her burden. Glad to see that you are doing it for you. Maybe give her the Wifes chapter from the Big Book to read.
Alcohol is an addiction. Like all addictions you need to discover the root cause. While you can label yourself an 'alcoholic' or call it a 'disease', in the end, you have to decide to (a) Stop using it to feel better and (b) Treat the underlying causes that get you to where you feel like you MUST use it to 'feel better'.
Recent studies have been published that say many people who suffer from anxiety, stress, phobias and other mental health issues are more prone to drink, and then get labeled as 'alcoholics'. Once that is done, they get into 'recovery' thinking they are 'broken' and need to address the DRINKING as their real problem when in reality it is a SYMPTOM of their root issues.
People suffering from anxiety disorders, depression or other related conditions often self-medicate and find themselves trapped in a vicious cycle of addiction.
I would like to hear more about YOU, and the things going on in your life, and in your relationship with W that were overwhelming you. I would also like to hear how, when life was overwhelming you and you started to drink to 'take the edge off' what did your W do to help you with the pressures? What did she do that wasn't helpful?
I've been through this cycle of anxiety, hopelessness, drinking, fixing, feeling better, anxiety, hopelessness, drinking, fixing, feeling better...
The only way I've stopped it is to realize that I CAN become addicted to alcohol (or anything actually, if it makes me feel better) and look at WHY I NEED it.
In my case, I NEEDED it because life was so overwhelming and my W's ability to support me when those times came was - zero. Now, that doesn't make HER responsible - I made my own choices. But it does help me to see what I need to do to be sure I don't repeat those cycles. I need to know WHY I feel the way I do, and WHAT to do when I feel that way so it doesn't build up so much that I chooses to escape with alcohol.
Find the answer to these questions and you'll find ways to keep your life positive. You'll be less likely to medicate again and experience all the negatives that come with self medication.
In my quest for answers I found a great source of information that shows that for many people, alcohol addiction and poor stress management is related to being Hypoglycemic. Hypoglycemia means low blood sugar level. This term is used to describe a metabolic disorder, that may manifest itself in a variety of physical and 'psychological' symptoms.
This is from the article "Alcoholism (Addiction) is a Treatable Disease"
Quote:
Contrary to popular opinion many scientists consider alcoholism to be a specific disease in the literal sense of the word. Of course this may not sit well with people who believe that alcoholism is a mental disorder, that can be treated by talk therapy or a change in religious beliefs. The faith based treatment programs are well know for its failure rates of about 80 per cent. This does not mean that they could not be of any benefit, for at least it brings people together with a common illness. I have explained the biochemical nature of alcoholism and why hypoglycemics are particularly attracted to alcohol. This may apply to all other kinds of drug addiction. It clearly shows that alcoholics and for that matter many other form of addicted people, have problems metabolizing glucose into biological energy, called ATP. Biological energy is derived form glucose from sugar sources in our food, and converted to energy by a biochemical pathway called glycolysis. Without that energy the brain is starved of energy and cannot produce the feel good neurotransmitters such as serotonin.
...
Please notice that alcohol (ethanol) is produced from pyruvate, the end-product of glycolysis, and that people addicted to alcohol are likely to have problems converting glucose in the 10 step biochemical pathway to pyruvate. Alcohol is rapidly converted to ATP. The fundamental question is why do alcoholics have problems producing serotonin? A serotonin deficiency has been associated with Endogenous Depression , which is more or less saying that scientists are not aware of the exact mechanism that cause people to be depressed. But at least it emphasizes that the disease is internally generated and has nothing to do with whatever is going on in the environment. Thus it can be asserted that alcoholism is a manifestation of a pre-existing depressive illness. Alcohol being a depressant chemical seems to be an antidote against some of the stress hormones active in depression.
...
Thus we see that Insulin Resistance can cause wild fluctuations in blood sugar levels. When the brain senses a energy starvation, during a hypoglycemic dip, it will send a hormonal message to the adrenal gland to secrete adrenaline into the system. Adrenaline functions to convert sugar stores in the body such as glycogen into glucose, so as to feed the brain again. But adrenaline is also the fight/flight hormone.
Thus a recovering alcoholic is wrecked with unstable blood sugar levels and wildly fluctuating stress hormones, that will cause anxieties and insomnia, and a return to depression.
...
In my work with alcoholics - 75% of the prison population have addiction as a comorbid condition of their offences - Dr George Samra found that if you test alcoholics with the four hour Medical Test for Hypoglycemia, most of them are found to be hypoglycemic.
..
Fortunately, Insulin Resistance can be treated without recourse to drugs by going on a Hypoglycemic Diet.
4 weeks ago I started changing my diet, and added supplements as recommended by various nutritionists to 'level out' glucose levels and reverse hypoglycemia. It's had an effect I have noticed in my life.
Here is what I take. Some of these I get from a combo vitamin, like the Magnesium and C are part of an additional Calcium pill I take.
Breakfast time --------------- 1 Multi Vitamin 1 Magnesium 1 B Complex 2 Vitamin C 2 Fish Oil (Omega 3) 1 Chromium
Lunch ------ 2 Fish oil 2-3 5-HTP (I use Natrol, it's inexpensive)
Dinner time ------------ 1 Multi vitamin 1 Magnesium 1 B Complex 2 Vitamin C
After 8 PM ------------ 2-3 5-HTP
During the day, be sure to eat cheese, crackers, power bar, anything with protein and some carbs. It keeps your blood sugar level consistent during the day. That's half the problem with anxiety, blood sugar level goes down, then brain function goes down.
Here is what I take. Some of these I get from a combo vitamin, like the Magnesium and C are part of an additional Calcium pill I take.
Breakfast time --------------- 1 Multi Vitamin 1 Magnesium 1 B Complex 2 Vitamin C 2 Fish Oil (Omega 3) 1 Chromium
Lunch ------ 2 Fish oil 2-3 5-HTP (I use Natrol, it's inexpensive)
Dinner time ------------ 1 Multi vitamin 1 Magnesium 1 B Complex 2 Vitamin C
After 8 PM ------------ 2-3 5-HTP
What do you take the Fish Oil for? For me, I had a case of gout in my foot and started taking 1 fish oil tablet a day. I have not had the problem reoccur. I also try to avoid high purine foods like chicken or beef liver even though I miss those so much.
What do you take the Fish Oil for? For me, I had a case of gout in my foot and started taking 1 fish oil tablet a day. I have not had the problem reoccur. I also try to avoid high purine foods like chicken or beef liver even though I miss those so much.
Improved brain function and memory. From an article online:
"There is a promising preliminary evidence, that Omega-3 fatty acids supplementation might be helpful in cases of depression and anxiety. Studies report highly significant improvement from Omega-3 fatty acids supplementation alone and in conjunction with medication."
Maybe give her the Wifes chapter from the Big Book to read.
I did this after the first few meetings. My W's response was that it was all a load of shi*! You could imagine how that motivated me..... I also apologize, Atlas for being so defensive. I admit I get defensive about the subject, I made the same mistake that I was accusing you of (I prejudged you prematurely).
Originally Posted By: frank_D
I would also like to hear how, when life was overwhelming you and you started to drink to 'take the edge off' what did your W do to help you with the pressures? What did she do that wasn't helpful?.... Recent studies have been published that say many people who suffer from anxiety, stress, phobias and other mental health issues are more prone to drink, and then get labeled as 'alcoholics'. Once that is done, they get into 'recovery' thinking they are 'broken' and need to address the DRINKING as their real problem when in reality it is a SYMPTOM of their root issues.
I agree 100% that it was a SYMPTOM in my case. I've said this to W many times. I also have heard about the hypoglycemic issue. I'm interested in testing but haven't got around to it yet. I believe that it is very possible that I may suffer from this but haven't discovered it yet. It may have contributed to the drinking, although I did have mental issues going on at the time. W did nothing to help me with the pressures. This was an issue. There are others, they came up in C (as well as other conversations).
Originally Posted By: frank_D
Like all addictions you need to discover the root cause....
I pretty much have figured it out. At least mentally. I did it for the probably the same reasons you did. Hated my life & felt like a failure on many levels. I didn't know how to handle all the stresses I was going through any other way. I had no support system to fall back on. If felt it was me carrying all the burden. I focused on the negatives too much. And it didn't have to be alcohol, pot, coke, I'd do either if I could get it. I wasn't picky about the drug or the delivery only the end effect. Ironically, the others listed were not much of an issue. It was the alcohol that was focused on. I think the bigger issue was that W thinks/thought that I was choosing to get drunk over interacting with her (in a way she was right but it wasn't my intentions).
Originally Posted By: frand_D
you have to decide to (a) Stop using it to feel better and (b) Treat the underlying causes that get you to where you feel like you MUST use it to 'feel better'.... The only way I've stopped it is to realize that I CAN become addicted to alcohol (or anything actually, if it makes me feel better) and look at WHY I NEED it.... In my case, I NEEDED it because life was so overwhelming and my W's ability to support me when those times came was - zero.
pretty much the same here frank, ZERO. She bitched & nagged. When I needed her to support me when I was trying to quit, needed a shoulder, needed some encouragement, or was depressed, I got nothing, only more reasons why I was a loser, failure, not good enough & examples of other things I was a failure at. This compounded my emotional issues...it wasn't her fault & I don't blame her, she wasn't capable of helping me the way I wanted her to, but this is what happened in my eyes. Honestly, she needed the same things I did and I didn't do any better for her.
Thanks everyone for the help. I do want to say that C went fairly well today. It wasn't a happy, pleasant experience. It was like reopening old, infected wounds to get some antiseptic on them. I think it was very productive, though. W has alot of anger issues and fear to work on. I have to work on taking more responsibility for my past & stop being so defensive. I'm feeling more hope that this is going to work out, I am aware that my W's pain is deeper than I realized (which is good). I think we both see the 'big picture' a little clearer. Like I said before, C reiterated my statement that the drinking wasn't/isn't the main issue..it certainly compounded the problems, it was a SYMPTOM. There are some other deeper, more complex problems that need worked out that were there for a long time before my drinking got out of hand. Nothing unusual, but they went on untreated for too long.
We'll see how it goes in the coming weeks. Tomorrow is son's 7th bday. W & kids coming here. My W gave me the book she had, she finished reading it last night. It's called "the 7 principles for making marriage work" by John M. Gottman. Anyone heard of it? I haven't read it yet but plan on reading it this week.
_________________________ Me: 38 W: 36 R 16 M 12 2 kids: S6, D4 Bomb: 10/22/07 Sep: 12/11/07 My First Thread, My Story
