The Deal With The Devil

[momto4]

Hi Hopefloats! I don't know if you remember me or not but I posted on this board for awhile back in 2006 when my hubby walked out on me and the 4 kids. It all went very quickly. He left me in March 2006, our divorce was final in )Oct 2006 and Jan 2007 he remarried one of the OW. So here I am believe it or not at one year post divorce. I think I have myself gone through some stages of dealing with things, but the other day I was talking to someone about how I made it through that almost suicidal time, because I really was a mess when it happened and I was completely alone because the army had just moved us to a new state. Thought I'd see if you were still around so I could say thanks for all your kind words and the encouragement you gave me while I was going through hell.

I see you are still hanging in there and I am just amazed at your patience and being able to stick it out. I know you are still going through a frustrating time with your hubby, but whatever happens you are one of the strongest women I've ever met!

[angelica]

Dear Hope, I agree with Jack and Amy [and others] who say that your husband is still in MLC. If you look at the time lines - not for newbies, but helpful at times, Depression and withdrawal CAN last almost as long as Replay, and that is before they get to acceptance. Your h is stuck for now, I think, in coming to final acceptance of who he is and what he has done. You are still IMO, getting his 'version' of events rather than the real emotional truth of his actions. The versions change as they go through MLC, their narrative changes, but what he is saying makes no psychological sense to anyone but himself. which is one of teh cardinal characteristics of MLC. I do not say this to encourage you. It is just the way it seems, to me.

But it is your choice always in what you do. It is long hard road, and you are reaching a point of peace.

Hugs, A

[hopefloats7]

I appreciate all of the feedback.

I think the best way to describe what my H is going through right now is to say that he had a major life crisis, and now he's covered in the ashes of his own destruction. And, rather than get me dirty, he's telling me to stay in the safe zone.

At least he takes ownership of the disaster. I am grateful for that.

I will see him in a few weeks when he comes to get puppy. It will be interesting to hear what he says then. I don't anticipate him to change his tune, but this time he will have to say it to me in person. I'm all ears.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I give advice to mostly newbies.
I keep up with those I consider friends.

I help others when asked.

For old timers:
If you want to stand I'll be cheering you on.
If you are wavering, I'll try and help in the direction of standing.
If you're done I'll be cheering you on.

I think the best way to describe what my H is going through right now is to say that he had a major life crisis, and now he's covered in the ashes of his own destruction. And, rather than get me dirty, he's telling me to stay in the safe zone.

Hope if you need an out to be done in your head and heart, far be it from me to sway you away from that course.

Why do you believe him now? Curious. I have never know you to give up, it just seems a different tact to me on his part.

[short1]

Do you think he is looking for you to reassure him?

My H seems so sure we are divorcing. We may. But I also get the feeling from him that his is testing me to see if I will always hold this against him. I won't, as I see no need or point in doing so. I think this is his biggest fear...and it comes from his guilt and shame.

If we divorce he can tell himself he did the "right thing" just in a bad way..a line many of our friends use. Or that he did right by me, another guilt release. If he stays it means(to him) he just messed up, something he has trouble with, not me.

I, like you, may just decide to divorce as it may be the only loving thing I can do..let him find himself. It may also help me move on myself. If I do it will because I am ready, not because of anything said to me by my H. Are you ready?

[hopefloats7]

Because at some point, Jack, you need to be realistic.
They don't all come back like your wife did.

[ShadesofGrey]

Hope,

I just wanted to stop by and give you a hug. I'm sorry for all you have gone through. You are an amazing woman.

I wish I had something to say to help you. You have held me up and comforted me so many times. I would love to return the favor.

Please know that you are always in my prayers.

Love ya,
Shades

[angelica]

Dear Hope I have been thinking and praying about you, and I remembered and went back to the good old 'Six Stages'

WITHDRAWAL

Now, the Mid Lifer has been beginning to face his/her issues while in Depression, and what they've seen has NOT been pretty. They've done so MUCH damage, and don't really know how to "fix" it, and that has made them even MORE depressed.

So, for a time, they conclude that life is not worth much, and so they "drop out" of life or WITHDRAW, hence the stage of Withdrawal.

It is also during this time, they will navigate obstacles and question themselves, somewhat, working their way toward what is called the "final fears" Not much is known about what the final fears contain-I think it is beginning to accept the death of everything they have ever known, including the death of their "old" lives; AND beginning to accept their own mortality without being afraid of it-Depression sets them up for this journey across an open field toward an archway to face these fears. During this time, they will NOT communicate with ANYONE, not even their spouse, as they are drawn so far within, no one can reach them. They MUST be allowed to continue, with NO interruptions, just like before-they will NOT come out until they are READY to come out.

Just like in Depression, they want to left alone, still processing their issues and the damage they have done to their spouse and their lives, and they make several decisions during this time concerning their lives, job, and marriage. But those WON'T be known UNTIL they break Withdrawal and talk to their spouse the first time

They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel.

You will see some Depression and Anger within them, they are mostly angry at themselves, but will take it out on you, and there are times you will have to be quiet and just leave them alone; letting them work things out, and they usually will, as the answers, such as they are STILL come from within them, not outside sources.

As they begin to come forward, they will begin the journey out of the tunnel-entering the first stage of Acceptance.

Now most of this sounds awfully like your h, to me. If you read this in conjuction with Snoddderly 'Explanation of Reconnection' it seems to explain a lot of what your h is saying and doing.

True reconnection will not begin to take place until the near the end of withdrawal--going into acceptance. The spouse in crisis will begin to disassociate himself/herself w/the replay antics, i.e., new friends, drinking, etc. They will begin to dress and act like the people you once knew. They will begin to smile a bit and look you in the eyes as well. This will not occur all at once--it's very gradual. He/she will begin to gradually take an interest in their surroundings. They will start to make real contact w/co-workers, old friends (prior to mlc) and begin to take up the hobbies that they once loved. The contact w/their respective parents and family will be noticeable first. Contact w/them will become more frequent and slowly they will begin to take more interest in their children. Their interest in the pets will begin again. As they start to move deeper into the reconnection, they will then begin to take notice of their former homes and you, the spouse will be the last. I have never understood it, but we are the first in the disconnection an the last for reconnection. The mlcer may find excuses to come to your home or meet w/you to discuss trivial issues. Generally they come around to see where your head and heart are at regarding them. They may even sit down w/you and toss out feelers about some of the things that they have done just to test your reactions. They may even ask you if you have someone new your life. Whatever they ask you, please be honest w/them, but in a very calm way. This is the most frustrating step in the crisis. This is where many of us will and have screwed up. At this step, you are the one that will either make the marriage or toss it aside. This is the time where your mlcer will be testing you to the max to see if you are going to accept him/her for who they are and for what they've done. Also, while this reconnecting is going on, many of us will begin to feel anxious and the need to begin applying pressure towards them, i.e, in making a decision as to returing home. You must find it in your heart and dig very deep to keep your expectations at zero no matter what. They must not sense that you are anxious for them to make a decision. If they sense being pressured, they will run hard and fast right back into the mlc tunnel and it will even take longer for them to feel safe to try again. You must keep your body language in calm and continue to treat them as a friend. This stage can usually last up to a year or longer, depending upon the individual. It goes hand in hand w/acceptance

this is a decent man who has done something terrible, that he is still having great trouble facing.

Whatever you decide will be fine, but if you can totally forgive and let go of all the harm and hurt, you will find it easier. The final forgieness for us is tough. I am not there yet, although Ihope I am moving towards it. Which is why I know how tough it is. As you know, we forgive for us, not for them. For the peace and good of our soul.

Hugs, A

[AmyC]

Good post, Angelica.

[Jeanette1120]

Because at some point, Jack, you need to be realistic.
They don't all come back like your wife did.

(((Hope)))

We've been here a long time huh? I remember you moving and how afraid you were, and getting puppy I remember how every obstacle you overcame. Everything you did, you did with dignity, grace and endurance.

What is being realistic? Your name is HopeFloats, and it does. Are you going to give up your hope, or are you going to take what he has told you, and give it back to him with understanding. To me what he said DOES sound like another stall tactic. He's trying to find a way to justify the damage he has done to you, your marriage and himself. So maybe he is starting to come out of it, but as anyone would be....perhaps he's afraid to really say what needs to be said, and a little more patience from you is all that is needed. He sounds like he is very unhappy with himself. All you can do now, is just be....be there if he needs you, be there to listen, be still.

He has a ways to go Hope......and until I see you change your name to I'm REALISTICit's OVER, I'll continue to stand beside you.

HUGS HUGS HUGS

Jeanette