What HD men really want and need is something that they assumed was part of the deal when they got married, swore off other women, and signed over half of their balance sheet - namely, a warm and loving vagina.
Dang, this sounds SO harsh. Yet, with some editing, it is true. I'd end it, "...namely, a loving woman who is enthusiastic and generous in the bedroom." But I'm a little too diplomatic sometimes. Your statement sounds too "locker roomish" to me.
Dang, this sounds SO harsh. Yet, with some editing, it is true. I'd end it, "...namely, a loving woman who is enthusiastic and generous in the bedroom." But I'm a little too diplomatic sometimes. Your statement sounds too "locker roomish" to me. Hairdog
I agree, your amendment would be perfect, and my words were slightly harsh. When I hit the "enter" button, I could almost smell the liniment.
What HD men really want and need is something that they assumed was part of the deal when they got married, swore off other women, and signed over half of their balance sheet - namely, a warm and loving vagina.
What he said.
It most(?) cases it wasn't even assumed, it happened on a regular basis (at least until it became very expensive to break up (hmmm)).
Yikes...I was attempting to use extreme irony in my humorous commentary on Ingrid's post. I did not mean to offend you, and I do know that you and cac4 are two different people.
I'm actually enjoying this board and have some catching up to do here.
LILLIEPERL - I will check out thework. Thanks! We went to 3 counselors together all told. I felt they helped a bit while we were going, but then it was back to the same old thing. I find these boards and self-help books more valuable personally. Part of the reason is my time is so stretched as it is...and I'm not exaggerting. I have a terminally ill sister and aging mother with alzheimers - both alone and at least an hour from me. I have a toddler, a full time demanding job and a marriage that has been up and down since our engagement. I know I sound like a prime candidate for counseling, but for me it is more effective to muddle through on my own.
I have read Verbally Abusive Woman. I tried some of her tactics, like "stop." His response was to mock me and say "stop it, stop it." I recently read the High Conflict Relationship. This book I think has more merit for our situation, and we are trying to work through the exercises. It is about building communication in a stressful atmosphere.
You are right though that I need to stop beating myself up. I've been reading about codependency, and I do have those issues. Not all of the time - because sometimes I can be downright difficult and stubborn. I will try to do a better job of sticking to my boundaries. I am encouraged that he is going to anger management.
The idea about asking him whether something would feel like a rejection...YES! So simple, yet I would not have thought about asking him.
INGRID - no problem breaking in. How long were you LD? Did the naked sleep snap you out of it? We have talked about that, but what about the children? We only have one, but even one makes the intimacy more difficult.
HAIRDOG - we are all skeptical from time to time. I've been trying for ages to build the passion back into my relationship (that's what my other post is about).
MRSCAC - just as you told me, some of these posts we need to ignore and let roll off of us. Your input is so valuable. Please don't stop posting! We all know you are real.
RESPONSE TO THE GUYS - I understand about the male expectation of marriage. I obviously know about the female expectation of M - to be protected and to feel love and safe in a secure environment. The problems begin when one or the other breaksdown, and then the vicious cycle starts. It only takes one to break the cycle. I truly believe that. In my M, we have broken the cycle from time to time, but it always comes back and each time it is a little more vicious. I want to know how to keep the passion and stop the cycles. Yes, there will be down times - but do they have to be so down they drag us all through hell? Aren't we in this together?
You can be very funny, and I typically enjoy your humor. In fact, one of the things that I find really sad is that your "frat" sense of humor has given way to angry, cynical humor.
In case you didn't realize, when I write posts here about my experience, I am opening up about my life, just as you are. And I don't always feel comfortable doing it, but I do it anyway because it helps me step out of my comfort zone. I compose MANY posts that I erase and never actually submit. And the ones that do get submitted often take me an inordinate amount to time to compose. I know that I am more sensitive than the average person, so it's even tougher for me that I am in the minority here. I represent the LD woman, the person that many seem to love to hate. Or hate to love. Or something. And not only that, I've done what you wish your wife would. You wrote last year that it was depressing to read about my progress because you wish your wife would get a clue too (paraphrasing here).
Sometimes I'm just not sure that this board can support HD folk who need to vent and LD folk who are finding their way.
I think it would be a shame if HD and LD didn't have a chance to learn from each other without all the triggers that make it difficult in their own Ms. Even when we're careful with our wording, though, typed correspondence sometimes strikes people in a way the author didn't intend.
LS, I have slept naked for as long as I can remember, except as a child, so by itself it's not a cure - I just find it much more comfortable. Skin-to-skin contact is the important part, and of course you have to be at a certain place to do that. I've said elsewhere, my H really can't live without sex, most especially when there is a woman in the bed with him. I've chosen to heal some of the hurt I've caused in my M by being 'enthusiastic and generous' (didn't have any problem with the other wording, though) and did this even right after I got the ILYBINILWY speech and even when he told me that I shouldn't take it the wrong way, that he was still planning to leave, which was the case up until perhaps now. I don't know, he hasn't said and since I said I was willing to take it day by day and wouldn't take his staying as a sign of a renewed commitment to our M, I guess I just have to deal.
This is a rather long answer to your question. I don't usually 'talk' this much, but I find human sexuality fascinating and don't usually get to discuss it with anyone.
Children, yah. I was very intensely involved with my kids, in that they were always with me and both slept with us until they were five, and nursed until they were about 4. Since my H and I continued to be naked (the kids were dressed, especially in the diaper days) and we slept in the middle with a child on either side once there were two, we still had sex in our bed. It's not like we were swinging from the chandelier and the kids just slept. Occasionally we would take advantage of one of the other rooms in the house, too.
More and more, though, sex started to be just something I did to get him off my back. For a number of years, I was tired and really needing personal space more than sex, and we certainly got into that vicious cycle mentioned earlier. Years of fighting or tense silence - when I think about it now, it was really awful. My H was getting this need met elsewhere for several years - I just found out the full extent of it last fall.
Some of the reading I've done in the past few months has really opened my eyes to the impact of my ongoing sexual rejection of him on my H and I sincerely feel terrible about it. I'm sure that all of the people that are here have something they look back on in the same way and are working to change, for the sake of their M.
Sometimes I'm just not sure that this board can support HD folk who need to vent and LD folk who are finding their way.
mrs. cac4,
I understand where you are coming from on this, but I actually think this is the most important thing about this board. Let's face it, if most of us were good at being open and honestly confronting the issues with our spouse who is the yin to our D yang, we wouldn't be here. But by having both perspectives here, we are able to learn more about what the other person is really feeling and thinking. This part is invaluable to me and I hope that it doesn't become a board of all one or the other. If I wanted to just listen to the frustrated HD side of things, I have certain buddies who I could call, but that doesn't help me in the same way.
PF
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
"Sometimes I'm just not sure that this board can support HD folk who need to vent and LD folk who are finding their way."
I'm starting to think you are right. Funny how the HD people often create the LD, yet they don't want to help end the polarization. Oh no...that's all up to the now LD person.
Sorry - still railing from Dom's message in my topic.
