Help me find the passion

[Light Seeker]

Hi mrscac- thanks for your post!

Okay, let me try and do a better job of answering your questions. I am generally not a doormat type - so no clue why my H actually picked me. Maybe that's why? Because he wanted someone to call him on his behavior. I told him flat out a few months ago that either it would stop or we were done. He has been much better since then, and he's signed up for an anger management class.

In the beginning, I think I was more lenient and should have set firmer boundaries. Once my DD got older, I knew I didn't want her to grow up with yelling and name-calling. Those are the worse ones for me. Fleeing is also bad. Silent treatment is bad if it goes on too long. I am hoping the class will give him some methods of dealing with anger and frustration since that is where all of those behaviors come from.

He has told me our bad sex life makes him feel unloved, rejected, unattractive. He has no problem voicing those feelings. But it seems to be the only thing he can talk about. If I ask why he married me, he can't tell me. If I ask what he likes about me, he can't tell me. If I ask how he feels about his parents, he says they were good parents. It's like pulling teeth!

I think that my H does want to try and meet some of my needs, but he falls into old patterns - just as I'm sure I do. When there are only so many hours in the day and are schedules often make us feel like passing ships, it's no wonder the connection wanes.

What do you do to rebuild initimacy? I like conversation - but it's tough to get him to chat (he says he'll try). I like massages and showers, but he thinks they should always turn into sex. So now, if they don't, I feel like I'm disappointing him. I like it when he seems genuinely interested in me and my thoughts, but this seems rare.

I've tried to accept this is just the way things will be, but that doesn't get me any closer to finding my libido again.

My father had a temper and would yell, but it was rare. I think they are similar in ways. My H's bad behaviors make a small percentage of who he is, but the cumulative impact is big.

I think as our DD gets older, and maybe you can confirm this, it will get a little easier. Now at the end of the day, we are both exhausted and just want to zone in our own ways. WE don't seem capable of zoning together. There is the problem.

I don't know, maybe I should try the testosterone again. I just lost the 10 lbs it made me gain and still have 10 lbs of baby weight I'd like to lose. I've been on and off of synthroid medicine and even tried an antidepressent. NOne of it helps my libido. Maybe this is just the way it will be? And if so, then how do I keep my M together? It seems so unfair that it's so easier for some - the libido part. I don't think it would solve every problem we have, but it would definitely help our connection. Some days I do feel like giving up, but then I look at our DD and want to keep things going for her. And then I realize I want to keep things going for us. It's so hard.

[Burgbud]

Light Seeker, have you tried a schedule? Your sitch seems almost tailor made for it. You can get intimacy-that-doesn't-lead-to-sex on non-scheduled days. He should feel better providing that because he knows when he *will* be having sex.

The only caveat would be that you need to be giving on scheduled days even if you're not "into it". In other words, don't do everything grudgingly and try to get by with the minimum. He needs to accept that you'll be willing and pleasant but not necessarily overcome by desire. The idea is that the schedule allows you both to relax and hopefully your desire for sex will grow along with his desire for intimacy.

[Light Seeker]

Hi Burgbud - we just recently talked about taking turns intiating sex (my idea) because I have bearing that burden for far too long. He was afraid too because he didn't like feeling rejected. Apparently, it was okay if I felt rejected!

I like the idea of scheduling intimacy too though. I will bring that up. Thanks!

A true "schedule" is tough for us because we have so many outside stressors - and I'm not trying to make excuses. Most people, when they hear what I'm going through, wonder how I'm still standing. Anyway, I'll try the idea of taking turns with intimacy. I hope he goes for it. I would love to shower together without expectation of more.

[Dom R]

Dom R - I have tried telling him things that I need. However, asking if you like nice is not the same as being told you look nice.

sorry, LS.. i didnt understand what you wrote there.

You would hope after a while, an intelligent person would get it.

erm.. dunno about you/me... I think that "WOMEN hope that their husbands would 'get it'". but "wish in one hand, " etc.


LS: Men, as a general species, "Just Dont Get It".

I think that your expectations that he "should get it" , are getting in the way of actual progess for him.

As a man, he needs very specific, sometimes even step-by-step instructions, or he wont "get it".
Your expectations that "he's intelligent, he should be able to figure it out", are probably stopping you from giving him the low level specific info that he needs from you.

He skimmed it. He understood it, but it didn't change anything.

What makes you think he really understood it?
Even if he SAYS "i understand it", doesnt mean that he really does. Some men will say "I understand", when they've just been handed a book written in ancient greek.

He has told me our bad sex life makes him feel unloved, rejected, unattractive. He has no problem voicing those feelings. But it seems to be the only thing he can talk about.

If you have a 4 inch nail sticking in your foot.. and someone tries to engage you in conversation... odds are, your mind is still going to be on that nail sticking into your foot

This is why many sex counsellors recommend that wives "just do it", when it's the wife that is LD. (So long as it is in a loving way from both parties). Make it as enjoyable for you as possible.. which requires that you actually ask your husband to do what is enjoyable for you... and then make the best of it.

Your husband is literally chemically imbalanced. He cant think straight about your relationship, if he isnt getting regular sex with you. Women sometimes joke about "testosterone poisoning", but it's actually true to some degree.

When your husband is regularly getting sex from you, he will be able to think and reason more clearly about your marriage, without that nail in his foot.

He will also feel more loving and emotionally connected with you, and be much more willing to build that connection that YOU are seeking with him.




As far as YOU getting testosterone treatment.. that's certainly an option.
Here's something to think about though:
Are you not going to give you husband what he needs, unless you "feel like it" ?
Or are you going to make the mental choice, to give him what he needs, whether you "feel like it" or not?

[Dom R]

Hi Burgbud - we just recently talked about taking turns intiating sex (my idea) because I have bearing that burden for far too long. He was afraid too because he didn't like feeling rejected.

there's kinda a straighforward fix for that, LS:
dont reject him

Then you'll get more of what you want (him initiating more), and he'll get more of what he wants, and hopefully, things could improve more.

[Light Seeker]

Ah - but he hasn't initiated in years! I swear, a couple of rejections and he ran away with his tail between his legs.

He has a healthy ego, but low self esteem. The nail in the foot makes sense to me, but it would help if I felt he understood my perspective at all. I've left out some of the horrible things he has said to me. Sometimes I can forget it - sometimes not.

I've tried the Nike solution. It didn't work for us. He knew that I wasn't getting much pleasure. Not too long ago, I suggested once a week. We missed one week and bam...silent treatment for a week.

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he isn't as inhibited as I am. He accuses me of never trying new positions, yet he never suggests any (even though I've told him to). He seems to always want me to lead.

I am not a feminist, but I am successful, driven, and generally eager to please. Did he choose me perhaps because he needs someone to take the lead? Well, sex is one area where I do not want to always - and I mean always - be driving the boat.

The nail in the foot makes sense to me. Specific instructions make sense to me - but do I have to give the instruction repeatedly? Shouldn't a guy remember at some point??

Our last counselor blamed part of our problems on him being analytical and me being creative. I've had all I can take of counselors. Either you both have to try and compromise, or you decide to give up or break up. I like the compromise idea, but I'm just not sure we can find a middle ground.

[mrsc]

Our last counselor blamed part of our problems on him being analytical and me being creative.

Have you ever heard of the enneagram? It might give you some insight into your H's personality and your own.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/descript.asp

[Dom R]

Ah - but he hasn't initiated in years! I swear, a couple of rejections and he ran away with his tail between his legs.

ah.. it wasnt clear to me that it had gotten that bad for him.
i'm sorry. then you have a tougher road ahead, if your goal is "for him to initiate".

I've tried the Nike solution. It didn't work for us. He knew that I wasn't getting much pleasure.

it's tough when both sides are "blocking" positive sex

Not too long ago, I suggested once a week. We missed one week and bam...silent treatment for a week.

yup. as I said... regular sex == positive bond, for men.
non-regular sex == "you dont love me"

The nail in the foot makes sense to me. Specific instructions make sense to me - but do I have to give the instruction repeatedly? Shouldn't a guy remember at some point??

yeah.... however, the thing is, you dont get to pick the point. you basically have to repeat it, "until he gets the point".
Unfortunately, that may be a very long time. or never.




maybe you could try not to focus on the "i have to tell him", and more on the "look at how willing he is to do what I ask him, once I actually ask him!"

I wrote to another poster, the analogy of "traning a puppy", with respect to getting the behavior you would like out of your husband. maybe that will give you a more amusing perspective


(that being said... there are other ways to deal with "forgetting". maybe you could work with him, and ask HIM... "honey.. what could you do, to help yourself not forget this stuff?"

ie: a weekly note on some electronic calender or something.

[Light Seeker]

can someone tell me how to quote others? great stuff being said.


mrscac - I have not heard of the enneagram. I'll check that out.

Dom - I love the puppy comment. If i think of it that way, perhaps I can be more patient. And you are also right, I need to think about what he is willing to do and not the fact that I have to tell him.

I did ask why he hasn't initiated yet and he was too tired to talk about it. He was extra cuddly though, so maybe he was glad I brought it up. I decided not to bring up the taking turns for intimacy idea yet. We have grueling schedules during the week, so it's tough to have energy to talk much less do anything else.

I do think we have a grueling road ahead. It is very hard to be polarized and maintain any kind of closeness. I'm sure a 5 year history isn't a lot by some people's standards, but for both of us it is. I am hoping we can build on the strengths of our relationship. We are good partners in many, many ways.

I think his criticisms and verbal abuse drove me to the LD side. I do think I'm low on testosterone but I've been trying to build it up naturally with diet and excercise since the steroids have a bad affect on me. He could definitely be more patient and compassionate, but he was a spoiled only child that was a bachelor for a longgggg time. I think in many ways that having a child hampered him more, but now that she's older he's really developed a great relationship with her. I'm hoping that helps too.

I also have a strong personality such that when he becomes abusive I often goad him. However, just as many times I shut down and withdraw. We are working through these issues though and he is going to the anger management class. I am trying to deal with the stress in my life.

Sex just seems to be such a fragile thing for so many couples. I can see how great sex can make a relationship better in all respects. i think my H is a bit unrealistic in the quantity he is expecting. He seems to think it should happen as often as it did in the first few months of dating - despite all of our other stresses and obligations.

This is a great board. It helps so much to know others are struggling too. SOmetimes I feel so alone.

[Dom R]

I also have a strong personality such that when he becomes abusive I often goad him.

i wouldnt call that "strong".
i'd call that "masochistic and self-destructive".

to me at least, "strong", would be if you were unswayed by negative treatment of you, and confronted him with "i dont want you to treat me like that".

Sex just seems to be such a fragile thing for so many couples. I can see how great sex can make a relationship better in all respects. i think my H is a bit unrealistic in the quantity he is expecting. He seems to think it should happen as often as it did in the first few months of dating - despite all of our other stresses and obligations.

why is that "Unrealistic"?

There's a difference between "I'm not interested in that much sex for myself", and "that's not possible".
A big difference.