Engagement

[fearless]

HD -I think he's been pretty clear that, although he may have preferences, he doesn't have "expectations."

I haven't seen that clearly and that's why I have been asking the questions I have. The statements SM has written, that I list below, seem to me to be expectations of what he expects her to be able to do if she really does want to save the marriage. They also seem to be judgments of her and her actions too.

SM - Calling a counselor is not that big, in my mind.

I don't think it is asking too much to actually look to her to take that step herself.

Which is easier, having sex after not having any in 10 years, or making a phone call?

Although it's progress, it's still not the actions of someone who wants to save her marriage.

Especially this last statement. Why judge her actions as whether they are or are not the actions of someone who wants to save her marriage? Why not say "Although it's progress, it's not enough for me"?


HD -I don't know about SM or his wife, but if I told MsHdog something like this, she would say something that would either ruin the memory of what had been a good experience

Understood. But in this case SM HAS already told his wife that a divorce will be an option if things don't change. He's told us clearly (I'm just not sure about her) that what he needs to see from her is definite initiative from her toward improving their marriage. He stated in many ways that "one little phone call" seemed a pretty easy way to start and that did seem to be an expectation. I questioned whether she might think she has made progress toward his requests with her foot massage, acceptance of his arousal, and apology for her testiness with him. All I meant was that IF he hadn't specifically told her his expectation of what she needed to show him to prevent him from leaving the marriage, that might be confusing for her.

OTOH, I am not saying that any of it is necessary. He could look her in the face tonight and simply tell her it's too late and move on IF that's what he wants to do... Then he would need to own that decision without anger, not blame her, and move on with confidence and PEACE into the rest of his life knowing that he did the best he could and believe that she did the best she could.

I admit I am a strong proponent of marriage. Even so, for me, if a divorce is the only way a person sees out (especially without abuse, infidelity or addiction), then I would encourage the person to be able to leave the marriage without anger, blame, etc. I've seen too many people be the ones who HAD to leave their marriage and then turn around and be the ones who harass and nitpick their exes even after the divorce. So your spouse was so bad you had to leave in order to be happy and NOW you're still not happy so it's still all your ex-spouses fault??? It's especially painful for the spouse who was left. They didn't want the marriage to end and had their lives devastated and yet their ex-spouse seems unable to quit reminding them that it was THEIR fault that the spouse had to leave. To me, that does not seem like the actions of a person who is at peace with their decision to leave.

Again my point is that if and when a person gets to the point that they feel they MUST leave their marriage, I think it's a good thing for the person to OWN the decision for themselves rather than to use phrases like "If they had just done x,y,z like I asked" or "they forced/made me leave the marriage", etc.

Hdog, that's why I liked your letter to your wife so much. I think it's very sad that your marriage has come to this and that your wife seems so oblivious to what's going on but still you've come to a place of acceptance and I think that's a great thing for YOU.