Better late than never?

[jon2911]

Did you remember to say I understand why you feel that way? Or did you get defensive and continue the R talk?

I'm not sure it's such a set-back as you think it is. She is giving you insight into her doubts, that's a big thing and you should stay focused on that.

Michelle, you're exactly right! After this weekend, it's clear that this wasn't really a set-back. More on that later...

It was frustrating, because all I can say is "I can see why you feel that way, and I'm sorry". Her response: that's not good enough. It's like she wants me to be punished, and I can understand that.

It's only pretending if you are only making these changes just to get her back. Otherwise, it takes 21 repetitions to make a habit and your act as if's will become permanent habits.

That's a great perspective, I can see that happening already. Thanks!

[MichelleLT]

Yeah, that that's not good enough or it's too little too late totally sucks. I've gotten those too. Unfortunately, you can't change the past, so that's all you can do other than make the future better. She is lashing out - that's all it is. Try not to take it personally (I know it's hard though). The more she feels heard and validated, the less she will lash out as time goes on.

[jon2911]

Well, tonight may be the night. I'm going to use a word picture to tell her how I feel. From an awesome book called "The Language of Love" by Gary Smalley and John Trent. They start the book with with the story of a walk-away spouse who's heart is turned back by the use of a word picture. I completely lost it reading that on the bus to work this morning.

Anyway, here's my biggest GAL and 180 yet: I'm buying a Harley! Getting rid of the piece of junk truck that my wife always hated. The incredibly strange twist is the Harley belongs to OM's dad, who had an MLC, bought it, never drove it, so I'm getting an incredible deal. How freakin' crazy is that? I've never met OM. W told me about the bike and that I should buy it. Here's texts from Sunday night:

W: My friend's dad has a Harley, he never rode it except every once in a while to keep the engine in good shape. He's selling it cheap.
Me: Would you ride with me on it?
W: Are you kidding? I'd have sex with you on it.
Me: You'd better keep your end of the deal if I buy this bike...
W: Hell yes

Fun little exchanges like this are a huge change from a month or two ago.

Here's another huge 180 for me:

W: I've always fantasized about a sugar daddy giving me plastic surgery as his gift to ensure the deal. Hehe
Me: That can be arranged;) What if sugar daddy got you a Harley instead?
W: Hehe I'm dreaming of fixing my nose at the same time vroom vroom
Me: What's wrong with your nose? I like it, but sugar daddy can definitely pay for that
W: Really? That would be so hot!
W: Are you being serious?
M: Absolutely
W: I don't know what to say, you are blowing me away


This is a 180 for me, because I was always opposed to plastic surgery during our marriage. To me, W is completely perfect and beautiful. What I had to understand is that it's not about impressing me, but about her feeling good and confident about herself (very hard for us men to understand that women would care about anything besides our opinion)

I know that W had dinner with OM last night. What happened? No idea. But she took him off her friend's list on Facebook. (OK, I still think all those sites are stupid, but whatever). Guess I'll find out a lot more tonight. Please be prayin' if that's your thing...

[MichelleLT]

Sounds like things are really going well. Keep the positive changes going!

I sympathize with you on the plastic surgery thing. My H has always been more concerned about his looks than I have and wanted to have Lasik surgery so that he wouldn't have to wear glasses for our wedding. Since it wasn't purely cosmetic and it was important to him, I said okay and we did it. But if he wanted a nose job, I'd probably be like, huh? Lol.

I'm also with you on the site thing. MySpace has been a big contention between my H and I because he moved OW up into first on his friends list, then a few weeks later deleted me completely and set everything to private so I wouldn't know anything he or OW put on either of their pages, then he recently re-friended me but still has OW in his #1 position. Plus his status says in a relationship instead of married and there's this whole spiel about how we separated on good terms and we'll be divorced soon - H hasn't even filed papers yet and in CA it takes 6 months from court decree to finalize. At this rate we'll have another anniversary or two before we get D. Anyways, where I was going with that is that those sites cause more problems than they're worth most times. But it is promising that she deleted OM. I hope it's good for you two.

[jon2911]

Hi all,
Things have been steadily progressing here, I thought I might be moving the Piecing soon. Two weeks ago W told her family that we're "in the early stages of working things out", which is huge. We've actually been there for a while, but to tell her family was a big step.

W wanted some space the last couple days, so I've been back staying at my place, but planning our Valentine's camping trip for this weekend. We had several great texts back and forth yesterday, and I had flowers delivered to her, which she loved. Then this morning happened.

7:15 AM, W calls.

W: I just wanted to call you and thank you personally for the flowers. I also wanted to tell you that I can't come this weekend.
Me: Oh, that's OK, not feeling well? (W has to cancel most plans with me or anyone else because her migraines are so bad).
W: No, I just don't think it's a good idea. I hope you'll still go. Talk to you later.

Silence, then hang-up. The words were like ice. I'm sure most of you know what I mean. I got up and drove to work, with the thoughts flooding. What the hell happened? This trip was her idea. Is OM around again? Did her family or friends freak her out? No freakin' explanation? I just felt played. How much longer can I keep trying and making these plans and responding to her every whim? Of course I have no alternate plans for the weekend, everyone thinks I'm going camping with her. I decided to go by myself and probably be miserable. Maybe read more DB and marriage stuff. I thought of 1,000 angry texts to send her, but sent this:

"I'm here if you ever want to talk"

A couple hours later, a call at work. I could tell she'd been crying.

W: I had the most horrible nightmare last night. We were at your house, and you and your dad were yelling, and there were guitars, and Quicken. I woke up and called you right away. I'm just not sure if I can do this anymore.

A little background, W's relationship with my dad has always been a problem, guitars represent my music passion, and Quicken is, um, finances I guess?

I told W that I'm so sorry to hear this and thanked her for the explanation. (Terrible nightmares always accompany her worst migraines, so I've gotten used to it). She doesn't have to be sure about anything right now. I'm still going camping, and she's welcome. She said she'll call me back later today.

This sucks. I'm not putting any pressure on her AT ALL. The pressure she's feeling is life stuff and her migraine disease. Her nightmare shows we still have very deep issues to work through, but she still won’t consider counseling or anything like that. What the hell am I supposed to do? This whole thing really threw me, and the rollercoaster is back again.

[MichelleLT]

I'm sorry to see you posting again. I'm also a bit curious what has been going on with you.

Did you buy the motorcycle? How did that go?

Did she withdraw the D papers? Why or why not?

Do you think you have been falling back into old patterns and that is why she is having second thoughts? Or do you think she is still working through her own confusion and this is about her and now you (in which case space and validation are your only real options as far as I can tell). Keep in mind that most of the people in piecing can testify there are fits and starts, some weeks where it's 2 steps forwards and 1 or 2 or even 3 backwards.

Would it be a new/continued 180 for you to go on this camping trip by yourself?

While you may not be pressuring her overtly, she may be feeling pressured by the general Valentine's Day atmosphere, the tradition of the camping trip, or just her own thoughts.

[MichelleLT]

Hey hope you're having a good weekend.

[jon2911]

Hi all,
Sorry to be out for so long. We ended up going camping that weekend and it was great. We lived together again for the next month and it looked like things were working out, but she remained convinced that she needed to move home to Houston.

Michelle, I'm catching up on your sitch as well. Yes, I bought the bike, and it's been great. Like joining a fraternity, which I need right not. The divorce papers have been withdrawn, because they were on the docket for too long. Here in Dallas, they get thrown out after 6 months. W is also on my benefits now, so she can't divorce me or she'd lose that. I was excited when the divorce was thrown out, but it's not that big of a hurdle for her to file again. We'll see.

A week ago she moved back to Houston to live with her parents, supposedly short-term. The alien is officially back. Calls are short and mean. According to her, I'm not welcome at her parents house, so it will be difficult to visit her. W's parents are still pushing her to divorce. She told her father that she's having second thoughts about the divorce, and he gave her a laundry list of promises I've broken. I've been meeting with a counselor, and he was shocked that W would move back home, right when we were living together again and patching things up. He's concluded that her unhealthy relationship with her father, and her desire to please him, caused a lot of our marital problems. I'm still processing that.

I couldn't convince her to stay. She told me "I'm going home so that my dad can support me, because you never did." I want to move there so badly, when we live close together we can't stay away from each other. The love and chemistry are still there. She admits that, but feels betrayed and that she can never trust me again. One specific breaking of trust happened in the last couple months, and I feel terrible about it.

W had mentioned OM to me, and that he was stalking her. I thought when we started to patch things up, OM would be out of the picture, but he wasn't. In fact, she went out on Valentine's with him instead of me. She had OM #2 in for the weekend, and I tried to be cool with it. He's a mutual friend from college, and supposedly nothing more. Then he started putting pics on Facebook where he looked like a pimp with W, and all my friends started calling me. They feel like I'm getting played. And I guess I am.

I snooped in her e-mail and Facebook one night, and found out more about what's really been going on back to June. It made me feel much better at the time, because a lot of her actions back then up to now make sense. Then I made the biggest mistake. I fired an angry e-mail to her dad, asking how he thinks he's going to help her headaches by moving her to Houston. I also made it clear that I'm not pressuring her to stay married. My counselor actually thought my e-mail to W's dad was a good thing, because I need to stand up to him more. Unfortunately, I also included a line about W's "affairs going back to June." We've talked since then, and she says it was strictly EA, not PA. I got desperate knowing she was about to move and quit DB'ing.

W and I actually had a good talk last night, she's coming in this weekend and we need to finish our taxes. Hopefully I can have it mostly done and we can just spend time together. She also mentioned that I might e-mail her dad and clear up what I said. She's still terrified of him and what he thinks (W's grandpa was an alcoholic, and her dad runs his family much the same way. They call it the "dry alcoholic" syndrome). I thanked her for letting me do that. She's specifically forbid me to contact any of her family and friends, and I want to honor that.

So, here are the quick goals for the week:
1. Apartment clean and inviting when she comes
2. Taxes mostly done
3. Letter to W's dad written
4. Mindset confident, not desperate

The last is the most important to me. I hate that she moved away, but this is a time to work on myself. W has asked that we be nice this weekend, no R talk or family talk. I can tell her parents are driving her nuts already, just like I knew they would. You can't move home at 25 and expect things to work. I need her to remember that I'm the one that's one her side against this migraine disease. Her parents don't understand, and neither does anyone else. They've convinced her that I'm the problem, and that she'll be able to find a job in 2-3 months and move on. Not going to happen.

Any thoughts or advice are appreciated.

[MichelleLT]

Well, 3 things. WB, sorry you are still here. One piece of advice, I'm glad you guys had a good month, but don't stop posting because things seem good.

Second, post the draft letter to her dad here for edits/advice. People on this BB are great with stuff like that. Apologize for interfering in their relationship, causing problems. Things you can genuinely apologize for.

Third, her moving out is time to work on yourself, and time for her to miss you. Don't get involved with her family drama, be the calm and stable person she can call when they are driving her nuts! And furthermore, remember, nothing you say to her family (especially her dad) will help it will only cause drama/pain for her. So, be the bigger person, vent to us, and don't cause her pain - she will appreciate it in the future when she comes out of the fog.

[jon2911]

Well, 3 things. WB, sorry you are still here. One piece of advice, I'm glad you guys had a good month, but don't stop posting because things seem good.

Second, post the draft letter to her dad here for edits/advice. People on this BB are great with stuff like that. Apologize for interfering in their relationship, causing problems. Things you can genuinely apologize for.

Third, her moving out is time to work on yourself, and time for her to miss you. Don't get involved with her family drama, be the calm and stable person she can call when they are driving her nuts! And furthermore, remember, nothing you say to her family (especially her dad) will help it will only cause drama/pain for her. So, be the bigger person, vent to us, and don't cause her pain - she will appreciate it in the future when she comes out of the fog.

Great advice, thanks! I'm so glad I have a place like this to come to, and I won't stop coming again.