Hey BJ! I can totally understand your concern. IMO, you should trust your H and try to let it go. If what he says happened is true, then there should be NO other reason for them to be alone together again. If it happens again at this point...then I might worry. I am sure it is so hard to trust after what has happened, but you will need that in order for you guys to work things out.
It seems like in your sitch, it might be worth talking to your H about your issues. Would he understand if you told him you want to trust him, but he needs to understand it may be hard for awhile? Not necessarily DBing, but it sounds like you and your H can communicate better than alot of us here. Again, just my opinion.
I don't remember if I have posted to you before, but it is interesting for me to read your thread b/c I live 30 minutes from KC, so I am familiar with most of the places you refer to.
Me: 30 H: 28 Separated: 06/01/07 D bomb: 07/17/07 after me pushing and pushing! #2 bomb: 08/13/07 Once again, I pushed!! #3 bomb: 01/08/08 Previous Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1322680&page=0&fpart=1
I am doing my best to try to trust my H. I am sure it is hard to just make a clean break and it will take time to dissolve the relationship with ex-OW 100%. But you are right, he has had the opportunity now to wrap things up. She knows he is going to try and work it out with me. She knows he is moving to Omaha. She knows he didn't get his apartment. And I am sure he has told her a million times that he still cares about her and is sorry he hurt her in this process, I just know he would say something like that b/c he does care and feels guilty.
But that is all that they should have to discuss. He kept saying he came home that night instead of staying w/her b/c he wants us to work it out. Part of me thinks he came only b/c I said if he ever stayed out all night again I would leave him for good.
Which brings me to tonight. It is Tuesday, BOWLING NIGHT. In case you are new to my posts, ex-OW is on the team. And H's best drinking bachelor buddy Jordan is too. Last Tuesday he spent the night "on Jordan's couch" according to him. That is when I told him never another night out all night or we were finished.
Saturday during our talk I told him that if he went out w/Jordan after bowling, I would have every reason to think he was with ex-OW since that is what happened Friday when he was out w/Jordan. So he said, "I will just come home early Tuesday after bowling and not go out". I guess tonight we will see. I feel like I put it out there Saturday, saying I can't trust him to go out after bowling with all that has happened. So if he does, I think I should say/do something. I know traditional DB says when the spouse keeps going out and you nag you should do something different, like go to bed first and not ask them any questions. But I feel like we are past that. I know I am worrying before I have anything to worry about. But I feel like I should have a plan in place if he stays out late and/or all night. I just can't deal with that anymore. If he comes home after bowling I will feel more confident that he IS trying to make it work. If not, any suggestions on what to do?
BJ-- As I have said before your H and my H could be twins. Their behavior is very similar. I do think it is a guilt ridden depression. I think that is what this entire thing is about. I think that is why he keeps flip flopping. Even as hard as it was to stomach I think that him moving out was a way to relieve some of that guilt. He could not give up OW (for whatever reason), but more importantly he could not face you knowing that he was still lying. My BIL broke it down to me in very simple terms- PAY ATTENTION TO THIS- You have "pimps" (that is what he calls guys who cheat and treat their wives like crap) and then you have "confused spouses". A true pimp would not care how you felt. He would come home when he wanted or not at all and you would have to deal with it. A true pimp would not move out, but instead keep doing his thing until you moved out. A true pimp would not bother to make up lies to save your feelings. Now hearing this does not make things any less painful, but his point was as long as he is conflicted it means he has feelings and if he has feelings there is still hope. He added that when it's over you will know. He told me you/me will be served with D papers and it will be ice cold. No feeling and no emotion. Things like property and kids will become inconsequetntial. Those things will work themselves out. The most important thing when you want out is to get out. You don't waiver, you don't falter, you act and then you move on. The fact that your H is still very much undecided says something. Now the difference between your sitch and mine is I asked my H to leave. I could not stand the late nights out. Those were making me loose my mind. I felt very disrespected. BJ I think you need to give H some space. I do believe he will come home to you, but really and truly give him some time. I don't think it is over with OW. Again, when you are done you eliminate OW from your life. No working with her, no bowling team, no nothing. You are moving so that helps, but if he was ready to be done he would have stopped it long ago. He is not ready and I know it's hard but back off and honor that. Do like DB says and go to bed early so you don't ask questions. I think you should most certainly let H move first and then you follow. You are too nice. It's kind of like you are saying "do your thing". " I will be waiting". My H said it last week when I was crying about him talking to suspected OW. "you are pathetic, have some dignity". Now I am still HOT from those words and we have not talked since, but I think one of his points was don't take my sh-t. I don't want you to take it because what I am doing is not right. You should be mad, you should want him to get his arse out! Think about it- if you were having an A and your h just kind of rolled over and accepted it and said "baby, I know this is what you have to do and I understand how you might be feeling and OK this is the last time I am going to let you do this to me (until the next time)." Wouldn't you feel kind of shabby like damn he does not even care. If he cared he would have the boxes waiting at the door and the locks changed. If he gave you this lukewarm reaction and just sort of turned the other way wouldn't you be thinking "damn, he does not even want to fight for me". I have never cheated on H, but I did keep an ex BF around for years. We would travel together and H would be pissed. He would say it was over and put his foot down and then take me right back. Well I only stopped talking to BF when he stopped talking to me. I knew H was not really going to do anything. Show your H you are going to do something and then do it! I know if you can get this right, your marriage will be so much better. Before I married H he did something very similar to what he is doing now. For months I let him waffle (dating not dating). He would spend the day with me, but never the nights. Finally, one New Year's Eve he stayed the day with me (sex all day) and then told me he had plans for the night. I was hurt and in tears. He told me we were no longer dating so why did I think he would spend New Year's Eve with me. I vowed that night to let him go. I did. I did not talk to him for months. He literally did not hear my voice. All he got was an answering machine (this was way b4 cell phones). Long story short he came back and he wanted to get married. He was acting right up until now. It's time to employ the technique that I know works. The thing is I when I went dark it was not to get him back it was so that I did not hurt anymore. That is what I am trying to do now.
BobbieJo, I know it is easy to revert back to what he has done in the past and think the worst. I think we have all done it. Try to be positive that he will come home early and that he really wants to work on your M. Your H probably feels a lot of guilt for hurting you and now he feels it for hurting the OW. I keep thinking when I read your posts that maybe he continued to talk to her because she could not judge him for cheating and almost walking away because she was doing the same thing. He probably felt like he almost deserved to be with the OW because he didn't think he deserved you anymore.
What I would do if he does stay out all night or goes out drinking and stays out late, lock the doors, don't answer your phone and make sure he can't climb into bed with you when he does show up. But of course I am a brat!
Keep the faith!
B.
ME 34 H 33 Married 02/11/2006 1st bomb- 06/05/2006 final 01/07/2008
Thanks guys for the support. It is hard sometimes to know what to do. He has called 2 or 3 times from work today just for random questions. We had "regular" conversations about "regular" things, nothing about or R or M. It was actually nice. And he has been sleeping in our bed, and saying ILY on occasion again. So I will keep in mind the positives when I am feeling negative.
But yes, I will have to take a stand if he is out late tonight. He doesn't have a house key, neither of us do since we moved here 2 yrs ago. We use the garage door opener to open the garage and leave the door into the house from there unlocked. The front door is always locked and we don't have the key. So if he is out late I can lock the door between the garage and the kitchen, that way if he opens the garage door he still can't get in. But I am going to assume that won't happen......
I don't think I ever posted on your thread before although I have been following your story. I don't think I can be of much help but I would strongly suggest you read "hope2wrkitout"'s last post again...
Keep your faith and I hope tonight turns out ok for you in the end.
So I met with my C this afternoon. She thought things sounded positive all in all. But we did come up with a strategy for tonight. If H does decide to go out after bowling, I am planning to text him that if he goes out, he needs to make arrangements for spending the night, b/c I won't be letting him back in. She said that things seem to work best when I set clear boundaries and consequences. So if we agreed Saturday night that he would not go out tonight after bowling, I need to follow through.
I had a missed call from H @ 4:30. I returned the call at 5:30 but hung up after a few rings. Didn't want to deal with voicemail since I didn't need anything and was returning his call. He called back at 6:05 but I guess I didn't hear it (I saw it on my cell) then he called back at 6:10. I answered, he asked why I had called. I said b/c he had called. He said he was calling to see if I felt better. (I had the flu/puke thing all day and night yesterday). I said I was better, he said he had an upset stomach today out the other end (sorry if TMI). I made some joking comment about how he should avoid the beer if his stomach was upset. He said yeah he knew that.
I told him I needed to get off the phone b/c we had pulled in the driveway (we were on our way home at the time), but that S asked if he would see Dad tonight. I said, I figured you won't be home until 10 so S should be asleep by then and can see you tomorrow. H said, Yeah, that's probably right. Then we said our goodbyes. I wasn't trying to hit him over the head with it but I figured that was an opportunity for him to mention going out after if he wanted to. Bowling winds down around 9:30 so he should be home by 10. We shall see what happens. My counselor said to draw the line at 10:30 b/c anything later would be him not respecting the deal to come home after without going out w/his buddies. I will check in tomorrow if things go well or later tonight if they don't.....
Just a brief update. Picked up S from school/daycare at 6:00 last night, ran late b/c my individual C ran late. Anyway didn't notice till we got home, but he has a nasty case of pink eye from the looks of it! I put drops in it (as a teacher I always have eye drops for pink eye in the cupboard) but it didn't get any better. Was putting S to bed at 10--he just would NOT go to bed last night!!--and sent a TM to H letting him know S had pink eye so I wasn't going to teach anywhere today. H responded, "Headed home now". He got home at 10:10. Hooray! I know he said Saturday that he would come straight home from bowling but he hasn't had the best track record....
Anyway he came home but as usual fell asleep on the floor watching TV and didn't come to our bed until 2 am. But at least he is still living at home and comes to bed....
So my C went well. She thinks I am really getting myself together with individual plans/goals, I seem stronger to her than I did 3 weeks ago when we met. Now she said that if H says he is wanting to "work on our M" and "fix it", I need to have a list of my expectations of what that will look like. My ideas were:
1)Be accountable, where he says he will be when he says he will be, consistently
2)Have his phone out in clear view (it always used to sit on the dresser or the counter when he was home) instead of keeping it in his pocket, I do NOT intend to look in it, but want to know he isn't afraid to have it out [I really have learned it is worse for me to read his TMs if they are bad, I'd rather not] I just want him to be able to have it sitting out and not act like he is hiding anything
3)Wear his wedding ring again, to show he is married to me and intends to stay that way. He seems uncomfortable with the ring and how it represents to him this crappy mess we are calling a marriage. I haven't told him but think I will tell him that if he wants us to get new rings to symbolize a new start I am okay with that.
4)I would like to have more physical affection (not just sex, although we haven't had that either, but I am wanting hugs, kisses, rubbing my shoulder as he passes by me, etc) and verbal affection (I love you, I am so glad we are trying to make this work, etc) At this time if I say ILY (I started again late last week after he said it to me) he will say ILYT, but he hasn't initiated it in the past few days.
I think this is a simple, fair list of expectations from a man who says he is committed to working on our marriage. We have our couples MC tonight. I am thinking about writing this down--granted I have it committed to memory--and bringing it up at the MC if the opportunity arises. I guess my real goal for the MC tonight is to see this situation from my H's perspective. In his mind, what does "working on our M" mean? What does it look like? What does he want/need to see from me to feel that I am "working on it" with him???
No news to report. Just bummed. Took S to dr. -- double ear infection (both ears) and pink eye, but he FEELS fine and wants to watch Transformers on the couch this afternoon (he is so obsessed with that movie...)
Counselor's office called, she went home sick, so no couples MC tonight--BUMMED!! Was soooo ready for it, esp. now that H says he wants to fix things and work on our M. We are out of that part of limbo land and I was ready to make a plan, move forward, etc. Now we have to wait another week.
I called H and told him about the reschedule. He said okay. I pointed out that we still had a sitter tonight so if he wanted we could go out to dinner or go shopping together (we need to replace our ceiling fans before we put the house up for sale) or something like that. He said he would call me later and let me know which option he wanted to do. So I am letting it go, he will let me know or he won't.
I kind of want to share my list with him of things that will help me know he is really interested in "working on things". But I am sure no man likes to be given a list of expectations, even if they seem reasonable to me. So I guess I will wait on that until the MC next week, or until he brings up R talk.....
Hi Bobbijo, just read your post on THE night.He made it on time!! 10:10, good for him!
MC: Look at it this way :maybe this delay happened for a reason. Maybe this extra week until MC will give you guys a better chance to absorve as much as possible during your session. One thing you sure got is patience, one week you can handle. In the meantime you are yourselves best therapists (as Michelle says).
I am so glad for you. Maybe you should move your thread to piecing?
Now she said that if H says he is wanting to "work on our M" and "fix it", I need to have a list of my expectations of what that will look like. My ideas were: