well, all hell broke loose, it is over and done

[LoginName]

Cat, I kind of agree with ACJ. You know he's cabable of justifying incredible things to himself and you know the OW is crazy and can talk him into things. I vote for some separation of finances.

Money is an intersting issue. First there is the pragmatic part of it: take care of yourself and your kids. Second, there is the power issues.

My wife had and still has an issue over this. She is feeling much better with her own account and budget. Even though I always said that the money was OUR money, we were a team, and I acted like it, she hated feeling that she was dependant on me. She also feared having to take care of herself monetarily. She is very proud of herself now. My point is that money is loaded with symbolism, and perception is more important than reality.

I guess if you could give him an allowance and he had no way to touch Your money AND he could spend his money however he wanted to, that might work, but... think about separating your finances some more.

And! I think ACJ's point about you need to experience that freedome she talks about. This is potentially huge.

I kept moving toward separating our accounts when my W was WAS. It hurt my W that I didn't trust her, but how could I? It was worth risking her hurt feelings. Now I feel that freedom of not taking care of (controling?) another adult. It feels good.

Hey Cat? Did you, do you, scold our H? Example "That he didn't do that one thing I ask him, ". This sounds so much like my mother talking to me. I could be way wrong and misinturpreting, but I'm asking: do you scold him? Are there control issues here? How about saying you need a separation for you, to clear your head, to do some thinking (you centered, kind of like "I" statements) instead of "you did this" and that's why we are separating?

I think part of detaching is giving up control. That applies to the money, and to the OW, the mobile phones, etc. Control your life, let go of his. If he can stand on his own, grow up, he may become someone you really can love and respect. Maybe not. You can't control it anyway.

About ""but how r we going to work on things if we are not seeing each other"": what do you feel? Do you want to work on things? Tell him what you feel, using I statements :-)Keep it centered on you and your feelings.

You might not know exactly what you feel. I'll give you some ideas. Try these on and see if they fit, than alter to fit better, or use your own.

"I do want to work on things but for now I need space to think and to understand. I think I'll be ready to work with you on our R later"

"I do want to work on things but I'm tired and need some rest first"

"I do want to work on things and I will go to MC with you, but I need some time to myself now too"

I do want to work on things but I need to feel safe before I can and I need this space to feel safe."

"I do want to work on things but I don't think we can until your relationship with the OW is over. I'm not going to tell you what to do, I'm letting you know what I'm going to do."

That's the best I could come up with so far. I'll work on it some more. My point is to focus on you, your feelings, what you want, not on him, expectations of him, hurdles he has to cross first, etc. He chose what he wanted, you chose what you want.

This is getting long but oh well....
I think this will go one of two ways. Either he'll get his act together (and it may take a long time) and come back better than before and he'll find a Cat who is better than before, or he'll crumble and not be able to grow the way he needs to. If he does crumble, or grow, it won't be your fault or your credit. He's got to do it.

I'll tell you a little bit about my "stalker" in college, cause it's kind of like your H's OW. I met a girl through mutual friends in college. I liked her as a friend. She professed deep pationate love for me. I was young and very naive and idealistic and didn't want to hurt her. Our friends kept telling me to be nice to her, not to hurt her. She took me out once and got me really drunk. I woke in her bed, not remembering anything. I felt like a total heel, like I had used her. I actually slept with her again thinking it was the right thing to do to show her I didn't just use her.(I know, I wasn't very smart). She kept pushing for more of a relationship. She would by me gifts, and somehow leave them in my appartment. I kept telling her I liked her as a friend. This lasted over a year. I was dating my wife to be at this time too. Finally, this stalker attempted suicide with pills and left a note on my door. I took her to the hospital. Then she wrote an awful letter to my W to be, telling my W about all the sex we had, how much I loved her, how I badmouthed her, etc. That finally got me to see the light. Also, I had a friend who started giving me good advice. Cold turkey is the only way to deal with this. I cut off all communications with the stalker. I lost some mutual friends that way. The stalker showed up at my door one day and claimed she was pregnant and had had an abortion. This really hurt me. But by then I had seen how she could lie. None of the facts quite fit. I continued to ignore her. She called me and said she had broken her foot and needed a ride to the hospital, and I was the only one she could call. I told her to call a taxi and hung up. The whole thing was awful and is a painful memory to me over 20 yrs later.

Your H is in for worse, probably, but the only way he can fix this is to cut off all contact with the OW, the manipulating, lying OW. But he has to do it himself. You can tell him all you want, but he won't do it until he sees it. He'll have to face the consequences to, but having the truth in the open is better than being blackmailed. I hope he realizes this, sooner rather than later. But again - you can't tell him this. He has to figure it out.

HOw much contact should you have? For s9, come up with a plan and stick to it. for you, really look inside and do what you want. If he wants to see you, but you would rather take a bath, read a book, wash your hair, say no, not tonight. If you want to see him, do it. Don't expect anything. Don't put conditions on it cause he'll either lie or fail to meet them. And you don't care either way. Detach, detach detach, GAL, GAL,GAL.

You'll be plenty busy with kids, regular life, yourself, that GALing should be easy.

I hope I didn't ramble too much. I'm rooting for you.