EVERYTHING is great but the sex. Can this be true?

[Lillieperl]

Can this ever really be true?

Let me rephrase it a little: "Everything is great BETWEEN US except the sex." Can THAT be true?

I think your no-sex partner can be a great parent, a great companion, help with the housework, carry on a great conversation, great at his/her job, be a great son/daughter to his/her parent, be deeply religious, tidy, thrifty, clean, brave, and reverent.

But can things really be all that great between you two if you're not having sex... or having it only a couple of times a year, or having it only after begging, pleading, and other humiliation?

I look back at me and my bf. I would have said everything was there, in place, and good except that we weren't having sex. But in spite of the fact that we had/have many shared interests, there was always something missing at the heart of things. I know he loved me and in fact still loves me. But say we sang in a concert together-- it's so much fun, getting all dressed up, performing, going out with the choir afterwards, congratulating each other, enjoying the adrenline buzz... but you get home and no sex. No culmination of a great evening. No sharing the ultimate closeness.

Or another thing we both like to do is grocery shopping. Going to a gourmet market and buying an assortment of goodies, coming home and cooking them, having a great meal, maybe watch a fabulous movie later... then I go to bed and he follows three or four HOURS later. That kind of evening just left me sad, not fulfilled.

So if your partner is a great parent (which my bf is), a great child to his/her parent (which my bf is), shares your interests, likes the same kind of lifestyle you do, shares or at least is interested in your religion... but doesn't reach for you sexually in the most intimate kind of sharing... how great can it REALLY be?

[SouthernGirl]

Wasn't he also often rude to you? That's a problem on par with no sex. Imo.

[Lillieperl]

Yes, that's kind of my point... when someone says "everything is great but the sex" aren't they usually glossing over some other interpersonal glitch?

Mojo in her thread just alluded to the fact that she thought the only problem with their marriage was the lack of sex, but isn't this the H who wouldn't put his arm around her when her dad died?

And karen talks about how her H is so wrapped up in his activities that he doesn't have a lot of time for her? When she had that fender bender he was pretty unsympathetic.

That's what I meant by "BETWEEN US." Your partner can be great with other people, with the kids, his parents, his/her clients/customers, but if the sex isn't good or isn't even there, can the R really be that great (or are you kidding yourself about something?)? How can EVERYTHING BETWEEN US be great except lack of sex?

[sat567]

Nicely written!

My answer to the question (Can this be true?) is this: If the speaker is saying, "everything is great between us except the sex," then you must assume that, to the speaker at least, the current state of the sexual relationship is not great. Now, if the speaker is saying that in a posting on an internet message board devoted to the subject of mismatched libidos, you can make some assumptions:
1. They have arrived at this spot after using a search engine with some pretty specific terms, or
2. They have seen a book about the subject which directed them to the site.

In other words, some thoughtful deliberation came to them before their arrival here. They are likely to be feeling fairly strongly that the current state of the sexual union is not strong (how apropos, today).

Even if the "everything is great..." statement is made in passing, it can certainly be an indication of trouble brewing. It depends, pretty much, upon the importance of sex to the speaker.

If, however, what you're really asking is, "if one partner has a perception that the sex is NOT great, does that mean that there are some other issues that are perhaps more significant but perhaps more difficult to articulate that are affecting the relationship?" then I would say, unequivocally, yes.

As Dr. Glover wrote:
Take everything written about Nice Guys in this book -- their shame, their sacrifice of self, their approval seeking, their doing the opposite of what works, their indirectness, their caretaking, their covert contracts, their controlling behavior, their fear, their dishonesty, their difficulty receiving, their dysfunctional relationships, their loss of masculine energy. Now put them all in a great big container, shake them up, open the lid, look inside, and you'll have a pretty good view of how Nice Guys do sex.
My point is, sex, or perhaps more accurately, problems with sex in the context of a marriage or committed relationship, are usually an indicator of problems with the relationship. Nothing new or groundbreaking there.

I would say that it would be a very peculiar case where it could be truly said that "everything between us is great except for the sex."

Hairdog

[Kettricken]

What Southern Girl said.

I realize I am the minority opinion on this one, but my experience is, yeah, it can be true. Sample size = one.

We really always have been the best of friends, a reasonably good team for getting things done, got each other's backs, laugh a lot together, no nastiness (beyond what you would expect from flawed creatures), etc. We always have been able to and still do talk for hours about anything -- religion, politics, fashion, psychology -- and rarely get bored. We vacation well together. We're good with each others' families. Etc Etc Etc. We've both done a lot of growing up over the past few years, and both realize some problem dynamics in ourselves that naturally affected our relationship ... but truly, all pretty minor stuff.

Except for the sex. And the physical touch in general. My realization that my desires in those areas were far far far from fulfilled and I was no longer willing to accept a starvation diet was what upset the applecart. I won't claim to have handled most of it well, but it could have been worse; the board really helped. Before that, though, the sex conflict was beginning to morph into your basic garden variety power struggle and threatening to destabilize the whole relationship. Spending time with him just wasn't as fun anymore, and I found myself tending to want to deny him what I knew he held dear just for the sake of revenge ... very unlike me. The tension accompanying the unresolved sex/touch issues began to cloud and poison every interaction. The resentment which started out as, "He won't have sex as much as I want/relax into it, let himself go, and connect with me the way I want/cuddle with me without vibing like a reluctant cat" turned into, "He really doesn't care that I'm this unhappy; bastard!" It was getting really easy to lose Lil's "Assumption of Good Will" (or is it "Intent"? which I love, btw).

And it really wasn't him being a bastard. I wasn't able to articulate (even to myself) what was missing for *years*. Then when I did, he didn't jump on the bandwagon right away (how dare he! grin). In retrospect, it was almost a classical Schnarchian Crucible scenario; me jumping into mine sent him into his, where he had to confront some very different issues, and it took us awhile (over a year, all told) to get back in sync. So it wasn't me begging for years and him ignoring it, which would indeed be a red flag for trouble elsewhere.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, does it matter? Even if everything is hunky-dory everywhere else, it would take a saint to be able to compartmentalize the sex conflict and not allow it to bleed over into everything else ... primarily, their attitude. People who feel guilty about considering leaving or throwing down gauntlets because "It's just the sex; everything else is great" are missing the fact that it won't *stay* "just the sex".

[Crazy Eddie]

Before that, though, the sex conflict was beginning to morph into your basic garden variety power struggle and threatening to destabilize the whole relationship. Spending time with him just wasn't as fun anymore, and I found myself tending to want to deny him what I knew he held dear just for the sake of revenge ... very unlike me. The tension accompanying the unresolved sex/touch issues began to cloud and poison every interaction.

Yeah, that's what usually happens. If you think your relationship is great except for the sex, take a moment to think about what would happen if one of you said "what's wrong, honey" and the other said "I'm kind of sexually frustrated right now".

In most of these cases, that would sound an awful lot like an accusation to the one hearing the bit about sexual frustration, and the conversation would not go well from there. Which would indicate that there are other problems besides just the lack of sex.

[ksuer06]

My advice, GET OUT WHEN YOU CAN!!

I married my H b/c everything was great except for the sex. Now, we've been together for 6 years, have a baby, and still, everything is great except sex. BUT, I'm not happy. Why? B/c a woman NEEDS sex, intimacy, love, and to feel as if she's the most sexy, beautiful woman in the world. When my H won't have sex w/ me, I feel worthless, ugly, sad, alone, among many other things. I know, I know, I shouldn't - but doesn't mean that I don't. Lillieperl, it doesn't get better unless you figure out what's the root of the problems and work on them - together.

Like SSM says - sex is a necessity, and it's not fair to you for bf to say "i won't fullfill all of your needs, but I don't want you to get them somewhere else either." Hummm. . .desitined for failure.

[Lillieperl]

Lillieperl, it doesn't get better unless you figure out what's the root of the problems and work on them - together.

Well, not to be a wet blanket, but figuring out what's at the root and working together doesn't always work either. We went to three different couples counselors (over a five year period) and also saw therapists on our own (he still goes to his). I think we know what a lot of the problems are. For instance, my bf is a recovering alcoholic. We did work on things together, but it just wasn't enough to make it work. It was like sticking jello to a wall. We're not married, no kids... "working on it" just wasn't working. As it is, we've had an extremely peaceful shift in our relationship (I can't really call it a breakup, because nothing has basically changed, except we're not pretending to be lovers any more. We last had sex over a year ago.)

For those who are married and have kids the stakes are much higher, obviously.

[ksuer06]

Well, at least you tried to figure out the root of the problem. You know, if you have no plans on getting married or having kids, and you're happy - then GO FOR IT! But my advice would be to not have kids. Only b/c if you do decide that you want to be in a sexual relationship, it will be extremely hard on the kids. I decided to forgo the kid thing until we figure out what was going on, and didn't realize that I was pregs at the time. So, now I feel somewhat "trapped" into the relationship. I don't want my son to have a broken family just b/c my H does and I see what he goes/went through. I just don't want to inflict that pain on my son. So, I REALLY want to make it work - but sometimes it feels hopeless.

Look at it this way though (there is a bright side to every turd), at least your not one of those couples who's R revolves around sex. I always wondered what would happen to those couples when sex is no longer an option. At that time, it's the conversation and enjoying each other's company that you need to make it work!

[SolidMechanic]

Can this ever really be true?

Let me rephrase it a little: "Everything is great BETWEEN US except the sex." Can THAT be true?

Yes, I do think it's true. But it depends on some things. If sex is not extremely important to both of you, if you can come to some kind of compromise, if you can talk about it openly without too much blame and shame, yes I think you can have a marvelous relationship even if the sex is not good.

Usually, a dynamic sets up where two people end up pushing each other away, at the exact moment when closeness is most important. It's hard to prevent the vicious cycle. And sexual conflict contains more potential for blame and shame than any other type of marital conflict, which is what makes a positive outcome, where both members of the couple can maintain a healthy relationship in spite of the basic conflict, pretty rare.

Your boyfriend has a history of being rude to you. Would that be as bad for you if you had had a good sex life with him? Having one area that you can't fix can lead you to scrutinize other areas more closely. On the other hand, if you talk to happy couples, they will speak of their partner's shortcomings with humor and forgiveness. So a conflict that has no resolution, no hope for compromise, and for which there is no level of acceptance will just fester and poison other areas of the relationship. If you can at least hear and respect each other's positions, if you can accept and forgive each other, if you can focus on the positive qualities instead of the negative, then I think it's possible.

But can things really be all that great between you two if you're not having sex... or having it only a couple of times a year, or having it only after begging, pleading, and other humiliation?

If you have to beg, plead, and feel humiliated, then I would say that you don't have a good relationship.

SM