No, she is not on anti-depressants. It didn't dawn on mean until after the 2.5hr conversation. She is just really down. Just not a lot of cheer in her voice. I have heard the smile in her voice during a couple brief phone conversations week or two before.
I have to email WAW regarding swapping days. I am going to ask because of her schedule. But now I got from 5D's school lots of events coming up and private school tuition/enrollment is coming up and thus we will have to meet and talk. I am going to take 5D to McDonald's Playground Saturday morning. Perhaps, she will agree to meet there. She has to pick-up 5D anyhow this day so this might work.
No, she is not on anti-depressants. It didn't dawn on mean until after the 2.5hr conversation. She is just really down. Just not a lot of cheer in her voice. I have heard the smile in her voice during a couple brief phone conversations week or two before.
Even with depression you'll occasionally have good days - Wake up, and everything just seems a little better. Doesn't last for long, and usually does have anything to do with what anyone does.
Hopefully she's thinking about going to a psychiatrists or a therapist to help with her depression - My W would never go to see anyone, then she pretty much fell apart one week. I convinced her to go to a psychiatrist who I knew and she started on medication, but she hasn't been to a therapist yet.
Unfortunately you can't drag someone into doing that stuff. Even with medication, 90% of the process is changing what you do, so if they're not going to do that, it's a waste of time.
Well, since she will not go to counseling re:M, I believe it would be a giant 180 for her to admit she needed help and say she was depressed. Heck, she has said for years I was depressed. I wonder if it is just about the sitch and things just not as rosie as she thought they were going to be ie. no money, sees the changes in me sparking jealousy, anger, tears, etc, her loss of friends, loneliness, on and on.
Often people ask hows things going, I'll tell them only about 3 minutes of the sitch and they will say, "she sounds confused, leave her alone for a month". I had friend tell me, "and where were you 2 months ago." I responded, "yeah yeah I hear ya, I get it".
Well, since she will not go to counseling re:M, I believe it would be a giant 180 for her to admit she needed help and say she was depressed. Heck, she has said for years I was depressed. I wonder if it is just about the sitch and things just not as rosie as she thought they were going to be ie. no money, sees the changes in me sparking jealousy, anger, tears, etc, her loss of friends, loneliness, on and on.
I think the whole process is very overwhelming and stressful for them. They don't really have the structure in place we do to deal with a lot of the emotions that come into play (not that we always do very well with it either).
If she is very depressed, there will probably be a point where something happens that pushes her in the direction to get help. It might be something small, like she misses a day at work or something, or it might be something major that makes her wake up and notice what a mess she is (like my W did).
I wanted to offer to swap days with you. You said the other day that you had a few more ballgames to work. It is my impression these games are on Tuesday's, the same day as 5d's dance class. I would like to swap your Tuesday's with my Saturday's. I was thinking this would make things easier on 5d, your mother, and you by not complicating dinner, dance, school work, etc...and you would have a full day to spend some quality time with 5d instead of a long day of work and bed. Let me know if this is something you would like.
5d is to wear her favorite pajamas to school on Tuesday the 29th. I have already paid the fee.
5d's school is hosting quite a few things for the next week or so that we need to discuss. I will be taking 5d to McDonald's Playland by the mall Saturday morning around 8:40 for breakfast. If you would like, we could meet about these things while she plays. You could also pick-up 5d from there.
Have a good day
I can't imagine I blundered but you never know...no response yet.
Well, no response and won't have internet access in about an hour. Honestly, I don't think she's even read it yet. She might contact me by phone tonight or just show up. Not really worried. On the off-chance that she does not read it by Saturday morning, I am not going to bring up these 5D things until after church Sunday. Ball is in her court, no sense serving again and again... until necessary.
Looking forward to my simple plans for the weekend. Got 5D tonight, we are going to paint plaster we molded, fix dinner, watch movie, perhaps visit great-grandparents(5D is lucky with 4).
Also, going to look into help groups for me to deal with family members drinking issues. Sister recommended me checking it out. She called it co-dependency. This actually is a 180 to boot, but it really is just for me. I already told WAW why I do not want these family members to be around 5D or me for that matter. And it is for so many reasons other than drinking. But it's a start.
Well, WAW responded to email by calling last night. She was surprised about me taking 5D to McD's at 8:40 in morning. WAW shared her day about a student and then about our sick cat. She agreed to meet at 8:45. I was in great spirits after this simple call.
I called WAW at 8:35 saying I'd be a bit late and she said she overslept and cat would not take medicine and she would be 30 minutes late. I said well I can get more than $2 in gas then. She said yeah and laughed.
WAW arrived at 9:45, 30 minutes after when she said she would. We talked about 5D school work and then swapping days. Everything real nice, pleasant, some laughs.
Then basically as I was leaving she said, "when are you going to sign papers". I should have just left. I fumbled some papers. Shuffled about trying to decided about getting up and leaving, but stupid me said stuff. 1) said you agreed to change 6 things and haven't, she said she was waiting on my lawyer and he'd promise to call when he heard something. 2) Mentioned her crap visitation in papers. She said early on she is getting this D for 5D but won't change visitation. I said you have admitted I am great Dad now so that makes no sense. She has a clause "any other times we agree" which is her way of saying we'll keep things equal but it is written where I get 5D only 2 days a week. 2) Mentioned why won't you go to retreat for closure and she said cause "she is done". Almost like why bother because she doesn't need it. 3) I wanted to say I am not in a hurry to destroy our family but instead said something like, "you will carry this burden of destroying our family, I have made so many changes in my life and I put so much guilt on myself for this, I hardly blame you. But I am not that man anymore and never will be. After this meeting I am going here or there and going to enjoy the world/day." She replied with an indifferent great. See we are both happier now. I said do you honestly think I am happier without you. She said yes. I said there is not a day go by that I do not think of you in some way. Very frustrating to talk to someone like that. Once again, get up and leave seems best. 4) I said something at one point like you promised me you would never do this. This is a bit pursuing. 5) I got up and said I will do my research on it (implying papers) and get back to you. 6) 5D came to give me hugs and kisses. She got upset and said, "I am going to miss you Daddy." I told her I'd see her soon and she got a little comfort. I think WAW took a lot of notice of it.
Positives 1) pleasant, enjoyable, laughing conversation until lawyer crap 2) met somewhere 3) friendly to one another 4) Not pursuing or begging but more like determined and strong not to destroy family. 5) 5D reinforced the destruction of the family by getting upset when I left by saying she would miss me. 6) Despite error in talking about lawyer stuff, I didn't talk about it long.
Negatives 1) I should have got my cue to leave a bit sooner. Could've avoided lawyer junk 2) Should have just left when she brought it up. 3) Maybe a bit negative throwing burden comment at her. I just do not feel she sees what she is choosing. 4) I guess I shouldn't have said a thing to her about the lawyer just invalidates feelings.
After being so amicable about her work and such, it makes me want to just say the heck with someone that will not even try and consider the new man that I am becoming. I love my WAW, but she was not across that table from me very long today. Why do these women feel like this is best? Are problems are trivial in comparison to others. No other people, drugs, violence, heck I was home every night. I just do not get it. And of course she will not give a reason because she cannot even give that to herself.
Well, I have no plan now except leave her alone, be nice when I see her, and DB coach next weekend. Other ideas would be appreciated. Seems a bit hopeless when she says the word DONE.
Please, any insight would be greatly greatly appreciated.
Picked up 5D for church Sunday morning. WAW was in her down state again. I gave WAW schedule that I had made for month of Feb. She seemed a bit surprised and only asked if it was the same as we talked about. I said mostly and that I had finished up the month because we did not finish. She let me come inside and began looking for the sick cat. Then 5D finished getting ready and we let for church.
I noticed a rash on 5D's forehead that looks similar to a birthmark and had to call WAW about it. WAW went into a story about how she has been sick and taking antibotics. I reiterated to look at 5D and said I had to go.
Dropped 5D back off at WAW's. I asked if WAW was going to be home at 5:45 Monday so I can drop 5D off because I have plans at 6:00. She said yeah that should be a problem then kind of shot out, "why do you need to know what I am doing". I said, "I don't but tomorrow is my birthday and I wanted to know if you were going to be here." She said we had not talked about this yesterday and I said no, I told you I had plans last weekend. She did look at the schedule once about it. Then, after telling me why I don't need to know what she is doing, she tells me what she is going to be doing Sunday. baffling. I gave 5D hugs/kisses and left.
I get a voice mail this morning. She says 5D doesn't have her school belt and to not worry about it but she will need it tomorrow and to bring it when I drop 5D off. In my email friday and spoken to her Saturday, I told her that 5D gets to where PJ's Tuesday. So, this makes no sense. I guess it shows she is not listening to me. Then, she says, "have a Happy Birthday".
More and more, it is clear that she is really confused and best thing I can do is give her as much space as possible, as dark as I can with a 5D. By telling her, "the burden for destroying our family will be on your shoulders not mine", and giving her a schedule for 5D for month of Februrary it really got the monkey off my back. I am much more detached now. Got plans to start dancing class tonight. Looking forward to it.
Isn't there any way to talk to her less? I understand there is some discussions that go with co-parenting, but it seems you are initiating reasons to call. If it isn't absolutely essential, and could be interpreted as a flimsy excuse to call (think of the LBS that is always writing, "he/she didn't have to call, wtf is up with that") I'd forgo it. And you really don't have to invite her to stuff like the McD things. Have some fun with just your child. I just get the feeling you are pursuing. Is there any system to your visitation schedule? If so, you could just try to go with that. Honestly, unless we need to switch weekends or days (which doesn't happen often), I haven't talked to my xw about visitation in probably 3 years. My kids know when they are with me (and have known for years) and are ready to go when I come by. If they have a rash, minor injury, or whatnot, then I deal with it myself. She does the same. Maybe you should evaluate what you do and don't have to discuss with your wife. A little space might be nice.
Last edited by Just_Me; 01/28/0803:55 PM.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Appreciate your post just_me. I do not call WAW except for 5D. I called about the rash because I wasn't going to have 5D. So, I couldn't deal with it myself.
Originally Posted By: Just_me
Have some fun with just your child.
I spend a ton of time doing great things with 5D. WAW has even said this is something that has made her jealous, angry, and upset. This is not a problem in the least.
When dropping off 5D, I would drive-off as WAW's door opened. After several weeks of that, WAW started doing things different like allow me into her place. Her anger is gone and she is sharing parts of her life with me. Meeting to talk about 5D's school tuition/registration for next year and WAW wanting to swap days because of busy work is not unreasonable. After the meeting, I made a schedule and gave to WAW. Our system is every 4 days. Regardless, schedule is clear now. Actually felt good to give to her. Made me feel like I wasn't a doormat.
Originally Posted By: Just_Me
If it isn't absolutely essential, and could be interpreted as a flimsy excuse to call (think of the LBS that is always writing, "he/she didn't have to call, wtf is up with that") I'd forgo it.
This is basically the standard I use to call her. So, I don't. Which makes her voice mail to me this morning so baffling. This is from my WAW, "LBS, ummmmmm, We don't have a belt(school belt) for 5d, don't worry about bringing one this morning, I've written a note, whatever, maybe you can...(blah blah)...Have a Happy Birthday". Just makes no sense at all.
I was actually glad voice mail got it. I really don't want to talk to her right now. She justs does things that confuse me. I don't need that. Just messes up my mind. If she is/will become interested she will be blunt.
Meanwhile, I am GAL. Today is B-day. I am taking 5D to a restraunt then I am going to enroll and participate in dance class. Small steps every day. That's the trick for me. Feel great.
