You have it backwards. The fog isn't going to clear until she ends all contact, and even then you're looking at 3 weeks of HARD withdrawal, and 3-6 months until TOTAL withdrawal.
You don't wait for the fog to clear to make the speech. You make the speech to hopefully impress upon her the importance of ending all contact, which will in turn clear the fog.
Make sense??
Your opportunities for "shots" will come, don't worry. And don't dismiss the idea of just throwing little "truth darts" at her. A truth dart is a BRIEF, true statement that you make to pierce thru the fog and land a hit, even if you don't get the response you want (you won't).
An example might be, you walk into the room where she is, and quietly say "You know honey . . . I wonder if you've thought about -- really thought about -- how destructive it's been to unilaterally decide to invite another man into our marriage."
And then you leave the room.
Or,
"Someday I hope you'll see the pain you're causing with the selfish choice you're making."
Or when there's kids involved,
"You know, I've been wondering something. Have you considered that THIS is the lesson you'll be teaching your kids, about how to handle problems in their life -- to cheat and run away from them?"
VERY GOOD advice indeed. I think that is why I am visiting this forum seemingly every minute of the day.
I love the Truth Darts. I will be coming up with some poignant truth darts of my own. I really like the 3rd one you wrote down. I will be using that one for sure, and the other ones too.
Man I had a weak moment about an hour ago. Feeling better now. Especially after reading your post Choc. Sometimes I feel like this whole thing is out of my control...some of it is. BUT then I read your truth darts post, or previous posts about how to subtlety use friends and siblings to get my points across to the W, and I realize there is more in my power than I first thought. I will use everything in my control to get what I want.
I'm glad you find it helpful. Here are some others that I used, and some that I saved in case I ever needed them. Some will need to be adapted to fit:
TRUTH DARTS:
-I will not hide your affair. -I will not financially support your affair. -It's your mess, you clean it up. -Send her an email with STD statistics, no other comments. -Secrets kill marriages. -You are being played. - Your current behavior is not helping the children. - "No contact" means "no contact". Working in close quarters with someone who's admitted being attracted to you, and vice-versa, is inappropriate in a HEALTHY marriage. It's absolutely DESTRUCTIVE in one that's on the rocks! - How will you be able to counsel your daughters one day if they're having problems? To cut and run? To have an affair? - You are placing your friend before your husband, and your friendship before your marriage. - Forget ME for a moment; you are not going to like yourself someday if you keep going down this path. - (S14) and (S11) need you more than ever.
IF SHE TRIES "R" TALK:
DON'T argue past points with her. Simply state the truth of today.
- She is having an affair.
- It is impossible to analyze issues with the marriage as along as she is having an affair.
- You can't analyze a relationship where one partner is making unilateral decisions to bring a third person into the relationship.
- Betrayal is an intensely painful action for one person to inflict on another.
Trying, DON'T OVERDO these. It's a truism that "you can't teach an infidel" -- they are in NO mood to hear it and to learn from you. But you CAN get little "darts" in here and there, especially if they are aligned with what the wayward person's core values are (or at least WERE, before the affair).
I thought I screwed up my 180 tonight by getting too much of my information and feelings in with my wife. But I'm accepting the fact Im' going to slide now and again.
However, your e-mail has let me know the little darts I got in were good ones. I told her she's the one who will have to look our 4 1/2 year old daughter in the face and tell her she didn't end her affair and she refused marriage counseling.
These darts felt pretty good, to be honest, and now that I see your post, they feel even better.
Thank you and I'm going to be printing off your list for future reference.
Some great stuff there. Going to memorize them all
Ok, here is the latest. I don't know if this is a glass half full thing or a glass half empty thing.
The W comes into the room and starts some general chit-chat.
Then...
W: No matter what We decide to do, I think we will need to move and sell the house.
Me: I am not sure I follow your meaning.
W: If we decide to stay together, we will probably need to move. It would be really awkward if we are seeing Him or (his wife) around the neighborhood, the pool, etc. Don't you think?
Me: I hadn't gotten that far to even think about it. (But yes, I have thought about that a LOT).
W: And if we don't stay together, we would have to sell the house, right?
Me: I dont know... wait a second. W, as long as there is a 3rd party in our marriage, and until you give him up for good. I am not going to talk about "what-ifs" with you.
W: He isn't. (This is a BIG LIE.)
Me: Well, like I said, as long as there is a 3rd person in our marriage, I can't tell you what I am going to do if this thing ends.
That was about it. We watched some TV for about 5 minutes in silence and then she left the room.
So, one part of me is thinking that this is good. She is saying to herself that we will need to move if we stay together. I like that. Heck yeah I would be open for moving. Too many bad memories here. But, the other part of me is thinking she is fishing for information about what I might do if we split up. I know she is a cheater and a liar, so I don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth.
Anyway, I will go to be sleeping good tonight know I got to use a little bit of what I learned in this forum What the future holds, I dont know. At least I will sleep a little better tonight.
I'd like to get some other folks' opinions here, but remember when I told you yesterday that you had missed an opening your wife had given? That of all of the wayward people out there, a bunch of them won't even ADMIT to cheating, another group will say "we're just friends," then some will admit to having cheated but aren't willing to give it up, and then finally there were folks -- like your wife? -- that admitted to it, offered to give it up, but just stumbled doing so and slipped back in.
In my opinion, she's given you another opening here. She is trying to project in her mind what it would be like without the OM, and what things would need to be put in place in order to make it happen. She's practically writing her own "no-contact" plan!
I think you should quietly go to her later, sit down next to her, put both of her hands into each of yours and look her in the eye and say something like:
"You know I love you, right? If I didn't love you, would I still be here? then... "Last week (or whenever it was), you you agreed to end it with him, but you slipped up. Tonite you talked about if you DID agree to come back to the marriage, that it would be awkward to see him. Honey, I need to know -- are you serious about this? Are you willing to end all contact with him, because if you are, we can help you set up a system where you can I can begin to work at the issues of our marriage, unintruded by any outside person who doesn't have our marriage's best interest at heart. If you're ready to do that, I have a plan, and I can help you."
And then leave the room, and see if she comes to you.
If she doesn't, you've lost nothing, and you've GAINED in that she now sees a confidence in you that you HAVE A PLAN, and that there's a way out of this mess that's running thru her brain (and trust me, it's running thru there -- DAY AND NIGHT). You've shown her "a", you still love her, "b", you still forgive her and are willing to work at your marriage, and "c" you have a plan and can help her. And "d", if you use a calm, loving tone, she hears the love and safety in your voice.
And if she DOES come to you . . . BINGO.
If you want to try this, I can help you with the Plan. Just let me know. In the meantime, if you're so inclined, PRAY LIKE CRAZY that God will have His way with her heart. It sounds like He may be working on it already.
I am all over this....I love it. I am going to feel out the mood tomorrow and try to have this little chat. WHY NOT???? You are right. Nothing to lose here. Gotta re-read your post a couple of dozen times. It makes TONS of sense.
This support and guidance is helping sooo much-- thanks a bunch choc.
The SIL just called here. I answered and talked to her for 20 minutes or so. Told her all the stuff I have been thinking. How much I love my W, how great I think she is. I told her to keep being strong for her sister and keep feeding those doses of reality to her. The SIL is not just being there for my W to agree with her and let her cry on her shoulder. She is being there to help me save this M. Feels good to have that in my corner. I also told her that as long as my W is in contact with the OM, then there is nothing I can do to help my W. This message will get relayed I am sure.
