Real Growing and Healing 2

[frank_D]

ok, I'll finish my thoughts now from my counselor meeting.

C stressed to me the importance of forgiving myself because I was only 'ok' 80% of the time. She said that when she last saw me she was concerned that I was work out from the emotional weight I had carried for so long. 10 years worth. She had TALKED to W about how important is was to find ways to boost me up, to be supportive. She even gave her ideas.

One by one I put out my concerns and fears.

I asked her about the fact that I wasn't there for her, that I was in my anxiety and pain and then I started to drink at night just to not feel the hurt?

She said: Frank, you were someone who was emotionally and spiritually exhausted. She KNEW this because we talked about it. What did she do? She took you away on ONE trip and that's it. And what about her business? Is it big now? Last I remember she was working on a brochure of some kind to promote it. Is it done?

I said 'no', she didn't finish it yet.

C says "right, because she avoids doing things she doesn't want to do, or doesn't feel confident doing". She could have helped financially but it was 'too hard'.

She could have helped you through your sickness, and you were sick, but she waited for YOU to fix it. Would she wait for you to fix it if you had cancer?

I mentioned that W said she was not doing the traveling and teaching she wanted to do and said that was because she was either afraid I wouldn't trust her, or after a while she was afraid she couldn't trust me to take care of the kids while she was gone because I might drink.

C said 'so, she has a lot of excuses. When you were still 'ok' she can't do it because you don't trust her. Then when she stood by and watched you deteriorate she can't go away because she can't trust YOU. But NOW she can go because SHE needs to grow?'

I asked her to be honest about the situation and she said "Well, it's amazing how people will change their mind when the 'For Sale' sign goes up on the house, but I think she'll walk out the door this time because she has no clue what she wants".

C also said that she could see that I was the strong person I always have been and that as long as I stay around her in this current situation she's going to pull me down. Case in point - the 'be nice - pull away' stuff that W does. She said that will drain me and I can't allow that to happen to me any longer.

She said that she thinks she's doing the 'I want to be nice to each other' because she subconsciously wants to make sure I will still 'be there' when she is on the 'other side of the door'.

C said "you have got to accept the fact of a separation or divorce now or you're going to hang on, and it will destroy you. You're already half dead and you can't do this any more. BE SELFISH for one in your life."

She suggested that since we can't move apart, that I stick with 'coordial' and positive and keep in my heart the intention of her going because I CHOOSE for this to end.

Because, I need to be the Frank who has always been strong because I have 2 daughters who need me.

She said something interesting: "2 years ago D17 (then D15) said in counseling with her "I wish Mom would just leave already because the drama she puts into our lives is unbearable". C said she had never had a kid say that to her. What does that say about W?

C told me that as I keep in mind the way things played out, how I tried my best given the state I was in, that I can say 'God, I did the nest I could but I have to release this woman or I won't survive'. I did my best, with honor and dignity.

C thinks that I'll be ok. I'll get better finally and reclaim my strength and integrity. W will probably walk out the door once she finds a way to finance it, either with our money or some other way, and maybe I'll breathe a sigh of relief when she does because she isn't my responsibility any more and I can concentrate on being responsible for myself and my daughters.

C said that she wouldn't be surprised if after a year or so W tries to 'come back'. But, she says, I don't think you will take her back because you'll be happier by then.

I guess I was very surprised at her response. She felt that 2 years ago the work I did to help W come back to the marriage was needed to give us all a second chance. That she was being influenced by some really messed up dark forces and would have brought a lot of destruction on the family if I hadn't been selfless and done all the things I did.

And, C thought W had learned the lesson and was clear on what 'being supportive' really meant and that she had a responsibility to me and the kids to help me heal and get back on my feet after what I had been through.

But, C is saddened that it wasn't the case and says 'back then you were up to your elbows in Sh*t and it was hard to do what had to be done - but you did it. Now the Sh*t is only knee deep and you're a strong man who only has to carry himself now, and be there for his kids. Give yourself permission to let her go and let go of the responsibility you feel you have for her'.

I'm so tired. I secretly wish W would wake up and see what 'do the right thing' really means. I know what it means to me and I've lived it. But since that is just a 'wish', it has no chance of becoming real. Instead, I'm sad to say, I really just want her to go away. I want this cycle to end.

I'm letting go. still being nice and coordial.

Working towards separating. Doing the best I can.

[frank_D]

Friday is my D17's birthday. She will actually BE 17.

W tells me that we are going to 'hang out' friday and that on Saturday we're all going out to dinner because then her friend 'P' can come to town and go with us.

'P' is one of the 'you need to be happy' friends. The 'family friend' that the girls like and is always friendly to me, even though she's willing to support W when she yells 'divorce!'. Of course, in the past 10 years she has done nothing constructive AS A FRIEND OF THE 'FAMILY' to help keep us TOGETHER.

I don't like her being inserted into my family's affairs. W moves the birthday dinner to Saturday to accommodate her schedule? Without discussing it with me?

No. I told W that she and the girls could certainly go our for dinner on Saturday with 'P' but I wasn't going to go. I said we'll go our for dinner on D17's birthday FRIDAY.

So, we made a plan to go. D17 wanted to invite her boyfriend and I said 'sure!' because I like him. D17 said "I thought mom said we were going out Saturday because 'P' can make it then?" and I said "you girls will be going then too, so you get two dinners!".

She was happy, we're going to her favorite restaurant.

I'm happy because I don't have to deal with the presence of 'P' and W carrying on as if everything is peachy.

Maybe I shouldn't have done this, but I went upstairs and took a moment to tell W that I wasn't angry at 'P', but that when she and I and the girls go out together I always feel like the 'fifth wheel' since it's all girl talk. She thanked me for explaining that.

W asked me if I still wanted to go with her to the comedy thing next friday, and reminded me that the Band Boosters are having a casino night (which we already paid for both of us to go) next Saturday and did I still want to go to that. Interesting, it seems that she thinks I'm suddenly not wanting to do things with HER because I don't want to do things with 'P'?

The comedy show was a no brainer and I told her 'sure I want to go I like comedy shows'.

The Casino Night was a tough one. There is a good chance that her 'text messaging friend' will be there, probably with his wife. I was going to ask her if he would be there, and explain that if he was I couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't ask his wife how she feels about the text messaging.

But, I knew I was angry tonight so I just said I wasn't sure, that casino nights aren't that exciting. But she said there was the silent auction going on (like we have money) and it might be fun. I left it open as a 'well maybe when I see what's in the auction I might be interested'.

I do NOT know why she seemed to want me to go to this thing. I DO know that she's probably feeling like I'm 'angry' and the 'energy is heavy' tonight.

All because I'm no longer going to just do what she wants me to do to make HER happy, if in doing it, it will make ME uncomfortable. And being around her girlfriend whom I have no respect for, or her married guy friend whom I want to punch out, will not be 'good' for me.

And I need to take care of myself. Because nobody else will, and nobody else can take care of me as well as I can.

Am I worried that I may push her away with these decisions? Yes, a little. But I have exposed myself to people and situations that have been uncomfortable to me for years, especially with this friend of hers. Not once has her friend 'P' apologized to ME for the role she played in our first divorce situation. She apologized to W for abandoning her as a friend when W decided to come BACK to me and not get divorced. 'P' wouldn't talk to her for a year.

But, she has never owned her responsibility in being part of that problem. I'm holding people accountable from now on.

By the way, that's something that my Counselor said to me when I told her the story about finding the text messages and telling W that her actions would end up hurting another family. C said "You didn't say anything about yourself Frank, about how it was hurting YOU. Instead you held her accountable for what she was doing and it's possible affects on another family". Yes, I did.

I've been held accountable for my choices. We're broke, stressed and now, getting divorce. That's being held accountable.

Yet I haven't really held W accountable for hers. I've fixed it, covered it up or blamed myself for her doing whatever she has done. Made excuses for her.

There is no integrity in that.

These are my N.U.T.S. :

"I do not socialize with W's friends who are not friendly to the marriage. I will not pretend to like them, that is a lie. I will stay neutral for my kids sake."

"I do not fix anything W does any more. I will hold her accountable for all the decisions she is making."

Respect and Honor. I am a good and decent man and I deserve to be treated as one. No matter what I have done that W holds against me, the bottom line is that at no time could SHE or anyone else say I wasn't a good man. Never.

Because if they did, it would be a lie.

[spitfire23]

Frank,

Check your email.

Spitfire

[faithisbelieving]

C also said that she could see that I was the strong person I always have been and that as long as I stay around her in this current situation she's going to pull me down. Case in point - the 'be nice - pull away' stuff that W does. She said that will drain me and I can't allow that to happen to me any longer.

Hmmm...this sounds familiar. Now..where did this come from (thumping fingers on table). How true...don't reach the point of total exhaustion followed by repetitive abuse.

No. I told W that she and the girls could certainly go our for dinner on Saturday with 'P' but I wasn't going to go. I said we'll go our for dinner on D17's birthday FRIDAY.

Sniff. Sniff Is that..uh...MAN I SMELL? Welcome back Frank. Welcome back.

Maybe I shouldn't have done this, but I went upstairs and took a moment to tell W that I wasn't angry at 'P', but that when she and I and the girls go out together I always feel like the 'fifth wheel' since it's all girl talk. She thanked me for explaining that.

N.U.T.S. Rule and basic man stuff...no need to defend yourself.

All because I'm no longer going to just do what she wants me to do to make HER happy, if in doing it, it will make ME uncomfortable. And being around her girlfriend whom I have no respect for, or her married guy friend whom I want to punch out, will not be 'good' for me.

And that's the key frank. You've done your DB'ing. Now..you must focus on YOU...focus on YOUR NEEDS...forgive and heal. If you find yourself doing things to 'not push her away' or planning things about 'how XXX will feel', then, you are failing yourself. DO THINGS FOR YOU RIGHT NOW. DO WHAT FRANK WANTS TO DO. I applaud you for your incredibly strong decision to just say, 'no...I'm not letting you take away the Friday BDay dinner and NO..I will not go Saturday." Bravo. I like this Frank.

Other N.U.T.S. for frank:

1) I stayed through one indiscretion. I refuse to accept another.
2) Texting a married man outside of business or social needs is crossing my marital boundaries.
3) Marriage is about love and support and respect. Without it, I choose to move on.

Keep up the good work frank. This has been rough on you. I see some sunlight.

FIB

[Aud31]

\o/\o/\o/ Three cheers for you Frank. You're sounding much better.

[frank_D]

Sniff. Sniff Is that..uh...MAN I SMELL? Welcome back Frank. Welcome back.

Yes FIB, yes. It was the support of you and the other men who I gave my support to when they needed it that has been coming back to me 10 fold.

For all the love and kindness W has given me over the years, it hasn't been balanced with true partnership and support. I thought it was, and I was mistaken.

I guess it was when my counselor made a very big point of telling me that I really was not well the past few months, and that I really needed help, that allowed me to forgive myself for the things I thought I had done that were 'bad'. And telling me that I NEEDED to let W go because my feeling 'responsible' for her was going to destroy me and we just can not allow that to happen because my daughters need ME more than they need her.

And that's the key frank. You've done your DB'ing. Now..you must focus on YOU...focus on YOUR NEEDS...forgive and heal. If you find yourself doing things to 'not push her away' or planning things about 'how XXX will feel', then, you are failing yourself. DO THINGS FOR YOU RIGHT NOW. DO WHAT FRANK WANTS TO DO. I applaud you for your incredibly strong decision to just say, 'no...I'm not letting you take away the Friday BDay dinner and NO..I will not go Saturday." Bravo. I like this Frank.

Ah yes, this is sooooo hard for me. The 'fixer', the 'caretaker', the 'selfless martyr'. But this is my lesson also. Being selfless in the face of your own destruction is only valid when protecting your family from true harm. The rest of the time it's futile and serves no one.

Still crying a lot. Letting go is painful.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Letting go is painful.

I think it has to be. If it was easy then it wasn't worth anything. The pain you go through is coin you pay to be firm in your resolution and determination of your decision.
Without the pain, it would be easy to change your mind, to waffle, to compromise.

[frank_D]

Once upon a time, in April 2006, Frank_D was looking for help because his W had told him that she 'was ready to be a wife' and wanted to repair the damage that she had done, and fix the marriage

Frank was worn out, and was wondering how much longer he had to keep giving selflessly. How much more could he absorb?

Frank_D:

I keep thinking how close I came to quitting over the past few months. But I know that even without the support of others I couldn't quit for very long. It just isn't in my nature. I can absorb a LOT of hurt and still keep going.

Hopefully, there won't be any more.

----------------------

Frank_D:

One of the things she has never shown me is the desire to DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to make a relationship work. She would rather quit. But quitting didn't work out so far for her.

----

Frank_D:

So I'm thinking to myself "That's all I have to do, rekindle the passionate side of myself and it'll be all better". But, I'm also thinking that I don't know how to do it. Talk about lost. Talk about being tested. And learning to be 'alive' again. So, add this to my list of challenges.

1) Survive W going to OM to find what's missing in her life.
2) Keep family together while also getting my own ass out of a 5 year depression while W is in La La land.
3) Pick up wifes broken life after OM turns out to be a user.
4) Help W financially so she can start her own business with the knowledge that she wants to be able to leave me.
5) Do the 'after the last resort' hardball and tell her to leave, causing her to do an unexpected 180 and decide to 'try' to make it work.
6) Now, be patient with her while she is waiting for ME to 'do something' that will open HER up to intimacy and a more passionate life that she want's to live.
7) Somehow get rid of the last of my hurt, my fears and build up confidence and create a passionate life with a wife who is waiting for ME to make this all happen by essentially seducing her.

And to think that just 6 months ago my life was simpler. I hated it, I hated me, I was depressed, withdrawn from the world and generally predictable. Who would have thought it would be where it is today?

So, I'm sitting here thinking "I can't do this. I don't know where those feelings are. Where they went to." And, I'm still living with the barrier between us. I can't just drop it that easily.

But, W has told me exactly what she needs to be in love with me again. It doesn't get any better than that, now does it? And I would LIKE my life and my relationship to be that way, more alive than it was. Who wouldn't?

The hard part of course, is getting there. I'm going to really have to work on this one. I hope it's the last thing that I need to do.

---

Becca said:

You know what I want to know? When SHE has to do something to build this passion and romance. Her wanting it from you is normal, natural and all that....but it is NOT fair for her to expect to just sit by the wayside waiting for the prince in the white horse that is within you to come by and sweep her off her feet. I can tell you right now that if she doesn't put forth some effort also, you are just spinning your wheels. It will never work because she will never feel what it is she wants to feel. She has to participate in order to feel anything.

A thought that went through my mind that may be something for you to ponder (but not necessarily the right thing to do) would be for you to just say the equivilant of what she's said before. That this would be so much easier with someone new and you aren't sure you want to put for all this effort when it is clear that she isn't putting for ANY effort.

---

Then AmyC said:

Okay.

Your wife is nowhere near out of her MLC, Frank.
She just got scared of actually having to move out & do things on her own.
So she said the right words...
And because of the hope that her words gave you, you backed off from detaching and now you are catering to her. You getting up from reading last night to go make sure she wan't offended is a prime example. That was just ridiculous. IMO her response to YOU was RUDE. You are following her around like a dog that someone MIGHT turn around and pet. YOU are doing all the work and your wife is an unappreciative, spoiled brat. She's not trying to save the marriage. She's biding her time.

But that is just my opinion.

I think SHE should have to win YOU back somewhat, too, Frank.
She's the one who had an affair.
And yes, you have more than atoned for your past.

My thought is that you should detach. And stay that way til she puts forth some real effort. Using more than dramatic words. She needs to be sweeping YOU off YOUR feet.

---

Donh added:

I agree with Amy who agrees with Becca. In a different way, this is what I tried to say last week. Clearly the conclusion is the same. As I read one of the last entries I got the clear feeling that Frank does not know what to do because his W does not know. The really bad thing is, I don't think there is anything that you can do. She is looking for you to create a feeling within. This is pretty much the same as counting on you to make her happy. She needs to be happy within herself first. The same hold true here. I don't want to make this 3 against 1 but...

I fixed it. Not her, me. It's all clear now.

Please learn from my mistakes. It HAS to be mutual.

[frank_D]

Friday is my D17's birthday. She will actually BE 17.

W tells me that we are going to 'hang out' friday and that on Saturday we're all going out to dinner because then her friend 'P' can come to town and go with us.

'P' is one of the 'you need to be happy' friends. The 'family friend' that the girls like and is always friendly to me, even though she's willing to support W when she yells 'divorce!'. Of course, in the past 10 years she has done nothing constructive AS A FRIEND OF THE 'FAMILY' to help keep us TOGETHER.

I don't like her being inserted into my family's affairs. W moves the birthday dinner to Saturday to accommodate her schedule? Without discussing it with me?

No. I told W that she and the girls could certainly go our for dinner on Saturday with 'P' but I wasn't going to go. I said we'll go our for dinner on D17's birthday FRIDAY.

So, what does she do? Invites her friend to come over later tonight and stay overnight because 'P' wants to 'spend time with the girls' while W is working tomorrow.

I overhear her say something to her on the phone like "We're going out tonight so Frank can have his dinner with them".

Ah, yes. My dinner. And then she and 'P' will have 'their' dinner Saturday.

Like I said, everything is just peachy! Well, except that I have to still figure out a way to keep us in this house, and fed, and all the other things that need to be done. And also rebuild Frank at the same time. With no help from her except that she pays some of the smaller bills sometimes.

Ok, I'm being angry. I need to calm down so I can 'smile and wave' when 'P' comes here later.

[spitfire23]

You know what, Frank? I find it all a little passive-aggressive. Maybe I'm just fed-up with the spoiled brat that is your wife. I am sooooo looking forward to when reality finally sets in for her.

And another thing. If she is so freakin' "spiritual" why has she never been able to tune in to YOUR needs? Guess she's an ace at figuring out when there is "heavy energy or negative vibes" in the room. She just falls down a bit when it comes to being compassionate to the man she chose to marry.

Sorry....I'm just a little P.O.ed at the selfishness of it all. Sometimes the stuff you tell me makes me want to puke.

Stay strong, my friend. This will be a bumpy ride. Take care of you. Keep your focus on you and your girls. They need you.

Hugs,

Spitfire