This is also why I think detachment and differentiation is working against the goal of having a better M. You can't detach and have more sex. So why would people be working so hard on detachment on a SSM message board. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Detachment and differentiation aren't the same thing. Detachment is a form of avoidant fusion. Avoiders aren't any more differentiated than pursuers or they wouldn't be stuck in cr*p relationships either. In the realm of sexuality becoming more differentiated is equivalent to taking more personal ownership of your sexuality. Doing this has the effect of making the LD spouse more sexual and the HD spouse more sexy.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
OK, I don't know how to do that quote in a quote thing, so I'll do it this way...
Hap said: I really do think LD is a manifestation of emotional withdrawal rather than a genuine drive issue.
LFL said: I totally agree. Funny how if they want to, LD people can have sex as much as the rest of us. Just got to break through that emotional wall.
I agree with Hap's statement. I can see the validity of that in my own sitch. I have come to realize that I was avoiding emotional intimacy (and still am somewhat) and that played a role in my LD.
LFL, I think your statement is overly simplistic and not true for everyone. cac is still as emotionally avoidant as ever and he is as HD as ever. I don't think I am as avoidant as he is, yet I have always been the LD one in our R. I still am. Our SL is better probably because we're doing the compromise thing that Choc mentioned, not consciously, but that's just the way it's working out. If I don't want actual sex, I give cac a bj or hj and we're both happy. And I try to do what I need to do to internally to be feeling sexual and want sex regularly. But I still work at it. cac is ready to go anytime. I am not. Maybe we're an anomaly, I don't know.
I always thought that he was the emotionally avoidant one, not me. But I'm not sure that's true. I was avoidant when it came to opening myself up emotionally during sex. Still am, really, but working on that. He is avoidant in that he rarely opens up and lets me in at all, except through sex.
I've got lots of other thoughts swirling around in my head but I'm unable to articulate them at the moment.
In the realm of sexuality becoming more differentiated is equivalent to taking more personal ownership of your sexuality. Doing this has the effect of making the LD spouse more sexual and the HD spouse more sexy.
This is exactly what it feels like to me. I must be more differentiated now. Who knew?
3. Realise things aren't quite right and use this as the signal that you are fused and need to start detaching
4. Assess the result and either fold or continue playing the game
It's probably impossible NOT to become fused with someone during the buzzy chemical phase - it's probably even necessary. But the step that most people seem to skip is graceful detachment.
I disagree. I think those of us who are self-aware should shoot for:
1) Find someone suitable but don't fall in love.
2) Continue to objectively assess the relationship even if the other does fall in love with you.
3) Wait until other falls out of love and is also able to objectively assess relationship.
4) If you both objectively assess positively then commit.
5) Allow yourself to fall in love but remain differentiated and thereby avoid fusion as best as possible.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hap said: I really do think LD is a manifestation of emotional withdrawal rather than a genuine drive issue.
LFL said: I totally agree. Funny how if they want to, LD people can have sex as much as the rest of us. Just got to break through that emotional wall.
I agree with Hap's statement. I can see the validity of that in my own sitch. I have come to realize that I was avoiding emotional intimacy (and still am somewhat) and that played a role in my LD.
This is what makes Cemar's head pop off, and many of the rest of us HD guys angry but hopefully a little more PC in how we express that anger, but it's precisely because there is some past history of HD, and our suspicion that our mate is holding back or simply not making it a priority or trying hard enough, that leads to our resentment.
At least it does for me.
There seems to be a LOT of contradiction among low-desire people that "we don't choose to be this way, we can't help it" and then we get scores of "I guess I didn't realize how important it was to my husband/wife" and "Maybe I wasn't making it a priority" posts, too.
Which is it??
I think I could accept my wife a WHOLE lot better if I knew that her low sex drive was something innate. But when I was able to see it the first few years we were married, and then also each time over the years when I put my foot down . . . and then when I add to that the fact that I KNEW she "found" it when she had her affair last summer . . .
Hmmmm, interesting theory MJ! VERY interesting . . .
Aren't you basically saying that couples should take whatever time is necessary to make SURE they're sexually compatible, before making a long-term commitment? And that such a crucial decision needs to made AFTER the "infatuation" period??
LFL I totally agree. Funny how if they want to, LD people can have sex as much as the rest of us. Just got to break through that emotional wall.
This is also why I think detachment and differentiation is working against the goal of having a better M. You can't detach and have more sex. So why would people be working so hard on detachment on a SSM message board. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I agree with that LFL.
I always thought doing for the SO, spending time with the SO, should work.
What I see, and it bothers me, Is, I do for/with BB and it works for a little while, then she wants what ever she wants and then the R goes down hill because what she wants, I don't want.
It takes me being almost moody and a lot of withdrawing to get her back into the R.
Its like, BB almost has to see me walking out the door before she is willing to cozy up to me.
I see the long term effect as at first it didn't take much of me detaching, now I have to detach a long time before BB will pick up the R slack. I expect soon she might not care to pick up the slack.
And yes LD/BB can have sex with me at 4AM if she is motivated enough. When she isn’t sex past 10:15 and a lot of other preconditions have to be met or it is a no-go area.
Aren't you basically saying that couples should take whatever time is necessary to make SURE they're sexually compatible, before making a long-term commitment? And that such a crucial decision needs to made AFTER the "infatuation" period??
Not exactly. I'm saying that differentiated people should be able to control their level of infatuation and the ability to exhibit that kind of control will affect the success of any sexual relationship. I would prefer to be able to choose to fall in and out of love with a man who I was able to like and respect in either case. Therefore, the compatibility I would concern myself with would be mostly non-sexual.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I understand that you are angry and in my enlightened state I understand it is not with me.
However, I don't understand your post in response to my comment. I was never HD. I have only had a sexual relationship with cac and I was always LD relative to him, even in the beginning. Our sitch is not typical, at least in what we read about here. The more emotionally avoidant person in my R is the one that wants to have sex all the time. That was the point of my post.
But I'm also not saying in any way that I believe that I am innately LD. Not so at all. I'm not sure that anyone is innately LD. I just have no context in which to judge my actual sex drive. One partner, problems from the get-go. No clue. Intuitively I believe that I could have a very healthy (maybe high) sex drive. But my R is not evolved enough right now for that to happen and I can't test it out with another partner, nor do I want to. I hope that my R will eventually be evolved enough that cac and I will trust each other and be truly emotionally intimate with each other. But I also know that may never happen.
