Please Help Me with my Confused Husband!!

[lizzy]

I have noticed my H has been around less on weekends lately. Maybe it is a step in their process. However, I would say my H is the king of cake eaters. Just make sure you get some time for you. I always have to leave when H has the Ds since he doesn't have a place. That means I can't just veg and enjoy some peace which I would love to do.

[BobbiJo]

It's TRUE! We actually talked last night! H spent 40 minutes talking to me about current job, why it sucks, how the management above him is horrible, how unhappy he is, etc. Then he told me about possible new job in Omaha (interview is today). Some of the finer points of the meat business are as exciting as paint drying but I was so glad he finally WANTED to talk to me that I listened to everything and tried to understand.

Then we talked about us. At first on reflection, I felt it went badly. But now as I review it, I think it helped a lot. And got me a few results already. A couple times H was getting really frustrated/mad and said "Why do we keep going over the same things again and again?" This is why he never wants to talk R, he thinks we have the same talk and nothing ever changes.

My response was that if I am always the one asking the questions/sharing feelings and he is always the one listening to me but NOT able to answer (H will say "I don't know" a lot, or sit in silence like he is thinking...), we WILL keep having the same discussion. That I can't fix anything all by myself. He actually agreed??!!??

Here are the things I did learn from him about our R and its status:
1)He says he is interested in giving it a try even if it were only for the sake of our children (before he said that wasn't reason enough). This actually hurt my feelings bc he says he loves me so I hope it isn't just for the sake of the kids.

2)He says it would suck if he moved to Omaha and I didn't come with him.

3)He is not wearing his wedding ring bc he says at this point, the predominant emotion he feels about our R/M is still anger.
H says he looks at our life and this is not where he ever wanted to be, unhappy with his M. That he never in a million years thought he would hurt me so badly, or that he could ever possibly get a D. So he feels like putting his ring back on means everything with us is just fine and dandy, no more work to do, we are back together again and not going to try to fix anything anymore. He thinks I will assume everything is going to work out just by him putting on his ring.

I assured him that just by wearing the ring everything was by NO MEANS going to be fine. That there were a million other things on the list of our marital issues that would still have to be addressed. That I just looked at him NOT wearing a ring as saying he didn't want to be married, or was ashamed to acknowledge he was married to me, that he didn't want others to know he was married, that kind of thing. I told him that the ring was not a reflection of the love he felt for me, that was the ring I'm wearing. That his ring is a symbol of the love and commitment I have for him and that my love was still strong. He said that made sense.
Bottom line, I guess he feels he wants to put the ring on at the END of this part of the process, once we have worked through our issues and survived. For him, it is the last step of the R, whereas for me, it is the first step of the R (acknowledging that yes we are married and yes I want us to stay that way). So it is just a matter of opinion I guess and I will let it go for now.

4)He hasn't been physical with me bc again he feels that is saying everything is okay again. He feels like us having sex and sleeping together in our bedroom is saying we are doing okay, the problems have been solved. He says he has used our physical connection to avoid talking about issues in the past and doesn't want to do that again.
I said that, to make an analogy to the buyout of his business:
When the new owners take over the business, they will keep doing the things the business is successful at doing, but will change the things that aren't working to make the place more successful, right? He agreed. I said, That is how I see our M. We keep what works and change what doesn't. If we both enjoy touching, kissing, sex, etc., why WOULDN'T we keep that? It would be getting rid of one of the few things that is still working. I said I felt like we should keep that part and work on the parts that are suffering (trust, communication, etc.). Again, he said that made sense...

5)He told me that I know he loves me bc during these discussions he tells me he does. I said, yes, but it the past in the morning leaving for work it was "goodbye, love you." On the phone it was "talk to you later, love you", etc. That he used to say it on a daily basis in casual conversation. That if he loves me and wants us to get better, my affirmation is verbal and touch. I need to HEAR and FEEL that he loves me. He seemed to have a hard time w/that bc I am pretty sure acts of service are his LL. He feels like I "KNOW" he loves me so that should do it. I also think his shame about the affair makes him feel he doesn't deserve to love me.
He did say, "Once you found out about the A you said everytime I told you I loved you during those 8 months it was a lie, so you didn't want me to say it anymore."
Me: "Are you still cheating on me?"
H: "No"
Me: "Is it a lie to say you love me?"
h: "No"
Me: "Then I would like to hear it again"
H: nods, says ok

As he got up for bed I could tell he was agitated, frustrated, wound up. He was standing there in the hall fidgeting, looking at me on the couch. He looked like he did the night he punched the wall and went to a hotel. I asked "Are you wanting to get out of here?"
h: "No I am going to go to bed"
Me: "Because you seem really frustrated"
H: points to family picture on table behind me, "Well I am frustrated. Have you seen that guy? (him in the picture) Because I can't FIND that guy anymore and I want him to come back."
Me: I want him to come back, too. I really do.
H: And I want to have us back, too. And I don't know how.
Me: I know

That was the gist of the night. This a.m. the furnace was broken (again), H overslept for work (again), son was still running a fever so I couldn't go in and sub (again), so H was not thrilled. He called work, took the whole day off (he had the afternoon off for his interview in Omaha anyway). He was in working on the furnace and I came in. He started grumbling under his breath about how NOTHING ever changes. I replied that sometimes it does seem that way but we have to deal with what we are given. He actually seemed to agree, although he didn't answer. In the past he would have made a smart-a$$ remark.
I had S make him a Good Luck sign on a piece of paper and sign his name, then I put D's handprint on it. It is a tradition we have when H has gone on other interviews or overnight business trips for S to make him a little note. H loved it and took it with him this morning. When he left, he came over and kissed me on the cheek. I said, bye, love you, and he said I love you too.

A few minutes later he called to see if he left S's note in the house. I said no, he said, good it must be here in the truck somewhere, I don't want to screw up my good luck. Then he texted me at noon to see how S was feeling.

SOOOO, if they ADMIT they are an alien, is that the first step to recovery???

[smith18]

BobbiJo - You have such a way of remembering and putting your thoughts down. It seems like your H cares a lot, but he needs something in the R to kick start it. Have you and your H done much together in the past without the kids? You might want to read Michelle's Time Together again.

All in all it sounds like your conversation was quite good.

[BobbiJo]

I will read what you suggested Kerry. We do spend time alone together, but not as often since we had kids. Actually, one of our arguments used to be that I needed to get us a sitter if I wanted us to go out. I finally got one in August but by then H was 4 months into his A, even if I didn't know it. And we took two weekend trips over the summer/fall but both were after the A started so I don't think H enjoyed them as much as I did. In fact the second trip was only 6 weeks before I caught him w/OW so we spent part of the trip talking about my suspicions...not so romantic?

Part of me would love to just surprise him and get a sitter for an evening or even take the kids to my mom's for a weekend so we can have fun together. But what I get from my conversations w/H is that he seems to think just hanging out and having fun together avoids the R problems, or that having a romantic evening will somehow make me think everything is fine again.
It seems like ANY step we take makes him afraid that I will "assume everything is fine". But if we take no steps, how do we make progress? I don't know if I should ask him that? Maybe I should ask in a different way, like "What does progress in our M look like to you? What would need to happen for you to feel we are making progress?"
What do you think??

[ms ladybug]

Found you here!
I can completely relate to your last post. My h doesn't want us to hang out togerher or go out on dates, like everythings fine, but how else are we supposed to move forward? On the other hand, we still have sex and that's OK??

Things are looking up for you and I'm glad. Take care of yourself first, and your kiddos.

[BAW]

BobbiJo, reading your story I saw many things that were very similar to my marriage. First off I am in aw of how you have handled it all, you should be proud of yourself and your strength. Letting him get to you and getting angry was just a setback, you don't need to be perfect- Jesus was perfect and he still yelled and threw things Your Hs response to your anger sounds just like mine- I would catch my H in an affair and I would blow up, he would then say that my rage is the reason he didn't want to be with me anymore. That I will never change....what am I supposed to do grab him and kiss him when I find out this stuff?!?! The cheater will always look to the negative in the R because it justifies what they are doing. We won't ever change and in their eyes they don't have too because our faults are the reason our marriages are failing.

I actually started reading your story this morning at work and I hardly got any work done today because I wanted to see how you handled things and what has happened so far I was praying as I read that everything would turn out right for you..God doesn't give us more than we can't handle, He knows you better than anyone.

[lizzy]

My response was that if I am always the one asking the questions/sharing feelings and he is always the one listening to me but NOT able to answer (H will say "I don't know" a lot, or sit in silence like he is thinking...), we WILL keep having the same discussion. That I can't fix anything all by myself. He actually agreed??!!??

That sounds so much like my H. I seem to do all the talking and he just sits there "thinking" looking angry.

Sounds like you did a great job last night. I know you want to hear that your H loves you. I myself forget what that sounds like. But, I wouldn't push it with your H at this point. Don't force him to say something he isn't comfortable with at this time.

[BobbiJo]

Woo Hoo! I got three replies! I feel so loved!

Of course, when you stop checking your post every 5 minutes it gives people time to reply.....

Well I am now in that awkward stage like early dating where you want to make a move but you don't want to chase the guy off....how to let them know you are interested without being the pushy overaggressive girl...but of course he has been "dating" me for 16 years almost so why do I feel this way?

I need to be encouraged by last night's talk. Instead I am thinking of what step comes next. I should just be glad he said he still loves me and wants to try, right? That he didn't move out, right?
It is funny bc 6 weeks ago if he had said he wasn't moving out and he loved me I would have been ecstatic ....although he didn't say he was staying here bc he loves me, he is staying here bc it doesn't make sense to move out when he may take the Omaha job and move soon.
So my fear I guess is that we will just be "separated" under the same roof. Although I admit whatever the reason that may be better than being separated into 2 homes. I am just relieved not to have to tell S5 anything at this point. And if H moves to Omaha and I stay here until the house sells (probably 4 months w/our market) we could be "separated" without giving S5 a reason besides staying to sell the house and finish the school year....

I guess that after H stayed out all night (technically he was sleeping at a friends so he wasn't "out out" all night, but gone all night) Tuesday I am thinking, I don't want him to live here if I have to worry about when/if he comes home at night. If he were in an apartment I wouldn't have to worry, I wouldn't know...
But I actually mentioned that to him in our talk last night, and he said he would obviously have to work on that and not be gone all night any more. We will see if that happens....

But tonight for instance he was on his way home from his interview (he is still driving home now) and we talked while he was in the car. I asked what he was doing tomorrow (he took the day off and said he would move some hay). He said he didn't know yet (guess he changed mind re. the hay). I asked if he would be around Saturday. He said he wasn't sure, then the phone kept cutting out and I lost my signal. I tried him back and it went to voicemail but this time I am sure it was the signal failure, I drive the same road he is on back & forth to Iowa and there are several low spots.

Point is, this weekend was "his" weekend on our visitation schedule. He was gone last weekend moving to Denver and spent the weekend before that moving hay, & the weekend before that moving hay... I scheduled a haircut/highlight for Saturday afternoon on purpose bc it was supposed to be "his" weekend--and he was supposed to be in the apartment and I wanted to do something for myself to make me feel good.

So if he isn't moving out, I don't want to go back to him doing whatever he wants whenever he wants. I still want him to step up and take his turn being with the kids. I know he loves them to death and any night he is home he loves on them all night long, but weekends he usually just does whatever chores or projects he wants. How can I talk about this and not cause a fight??

I hate to undo the progress we made...but I want to move forward, too.

OH, and we talked during his drive tonight and he is 99% taking the job. Same pay and the boss who interviewed him said in 5 years he plans to step down and my H would become the guy in charge of the company at that time.....$$$$$....H would NOT want to pass that up since he would get big $$ then to spend on his cows.

[BobbiJo]

Colorado,

You almost made me cry. I feel so blessed that all of you guys would spend your free time reading about my problems and trying to help me! You are all in my thoughts and prayers every day.

When I am feeling down, I think of those whose situations are worse than mine so I know I am lucky, and I think of those whose situations have improved and who have restored their Ms so I know what I am shooting for.....

I just love this board!!

[BobbiJo]

Ladybug,

I am taking care of me & my kiddos, I literally spent yesterday chasing S around with a rag to clean up his puke (sorry if TMI!).
And stayed home again today bc he still had a fever. So my kids will always know Mommy loves them to the moon and back.

And maybe I'd be okay without dates if I at least still got the sex....at least I'd like to try it and find out!

Good luck to you I will check your posts tonight to see what is new.