The thing that is really getting my goat right now is that my W is in that stupid fog and can't see ANYTHING else. I can be strong for me and give her the time she needs to decide, but when I think about what she is almost about to do to our 3 kids.... I am reading all kinds of stats and facts about what happens to kids in a D. Plain and simple, I don't want that for the kids. They are GREAT kids and don't deserve to have a selfish parent screw them up for their lifetime.
I want to tell or share these facts and stats about kids of D with my W. But I don't think she would even be able to comprehend what I am saying because she is drunk on this EA/PA. Please let this A fog lift soon.
I am pretty sure the OM is "deciding" right now what his next move is. I am pretty sure he has been talking to his confidants/friends/family about his feelings. I would say with 99% certainty that he is willing to leave his W and 2 YOUNG kids. I think he is about to make that happen in the next week or two.
I will tell you what, every day that goes by that this A continues, it pushes my willingness to explore forgiveness further and further away. Not saying I will feel that way 5 minutes from now, but that is how I feel right now.
So what are you going to do about it? "I hate that ...", and "It sucks that ... " and "It's no fair that ...." don't get you anywhere. Sure, we'll all commiserate and nod our head in understanding, but what does it accomplish?
Have you flat-out ASKED her to end all contact with the OM, and come back and work on the marriage with you?
You are right. Time to stop the pity party. It has been 9 days since the infidelity bomb was discovered. I guess I am a little unsure on how to act.
But to answer your questions, on Day 1, I demanded she stop all contact with him. She called him to tell him it was over the next day. She stopped talking to him for 1-2 days after that, and then started talking again. So, yes, I have asked her to stop the EA/PA. She has not done so. I also demanded that we go to MC together immediately. She has been to 1 counseling session alone, but we/she is not ready for MC. She is going again tomorrow alone. Says she is trying to figure out who she is and why she is who she is in relationships. There is some baggage there, but I never thought until now that it wasn't something that would cause MLC(?) or A or whatever this is.
Question - it has only been 9 days. I know she needs time. I *think* I know that guilting her back to reality won't work. But, what do you think of this? There is a book I found called "Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce." http://www.betweentwoworlds.org/ It is obviously about what happens to the innocent kids of a divorce.
What do you think the impact might be if I just leave it for her to read? I want to "wake" her up (even though I know that is HER job). Thought this might be a way to do it? Or is this just a bad idea to use guilt and reality to get her to come back to me??
i'm sorry for this difficult and painful experience you are having.
it is not, however, hopeless. by coming to this online community you have already taken an important first step toward proactively managing your situation and...getting much needed support.
the main point i would like to make is that timing is everything. your approach with your wife, therefore, must recognize the futility of "overselling" your marriage to someone who is in the sugar high phase of their affair. based on your post, it seems that your wife knows you have skin in the game and want to save your marriage. that's all she needs to know for now.
until now, her affair has enjoyed the free ride status of a secret relationship: it's all benefit and no cost. this has now changed and it will probably accelerate the end of the honeymoon phase of their affair. this is where your possibilites begin, but you must be very pateint and clever. i personally suggest not continuing to read her emails (think of your own stated desire to maintain dignity), but i do suggest paying attention to signs that her affair is weakening. possible signs: she will start spending more time with girlfriends, she will change her attitude toward you and may present herself as less self-assured. look at other posts and mwd's book "divorce remedy" for further clues.
until then, remember this. in her current state your wife will receive negative evidence about you - things that tend to justify her action of having the affair or doubting the marriage. she will tend to block positive information about your or your marriage, especially if it comes from you. what this means is that during this time you should avoid doing things that irritate your relationship with your wife, within the limits of dignity. later, you can begin carefully submitting positive evidence when she moves into the uncertainty phase of her affair - which almost always happens.
what does this look like? it means be civilized and kind, but self-protective. take care of yourself and go through the motions of doing the things that make you a dignified and valuable person (i use the expression "go through the motions" because this it what it will feel like, but the benefits will be very real). improve yourself. don't pursue. let me say that again: don't pursue. and if she resists going to counseling, drop it like a hot potatoe and go yourself.
think about this very carefully: if your spouse has to devote any energy to resisting your efforts to talk about, repair or counsel the relationship she will lean against you with everything she's got. if you totally withdraw from field, she has nothing to lean into and must then begin sorting through her own very strong mixed feelings which will increasingly develop if you are patient.
keep posting and if you see signs of uncertainty, get lots of input so you can make the most of the opportunity.
I'm not familiar with that specific book, but yes, I do think it's a good idea to get some good information to her about what divorce does to kids. She should make an informed decision, and there is SO much pap out there about "oh, they'll be just fine; children are resilient," etc.
If you asked your wife to end all contact, and she agreed, try to bring her back to that spot. You are all over the map here (I was too!). There is a HUGE difference between a wayward spouse who has never even ADMITTED to having an affair ("we're just friends!"), one who admits it but refuses to end it, and your sitch. In your case, she not only 'fessed to the affair, she agreed to end it, and she actually CALLED him to end it.
This is good!
The reason she is confused is because she DIDN'T end contact with him, and so all those loooooove chemicals are washing over her brain and her body right now. Remember, these are the same chemicals that made an otherwise sane, intelligent astronaut drive across the country wearing a frigging adult diaper to "save her man"!
Talk to your wife. Ask her if she meant it when she said she would end all contact with him, and ask her if she's still willing to do that. Make her answer you. If she is, there are proper ways to do that -- to build the firewall -- and I can help you with that, and you should tell HER that you can help her with that.
If she is not, or -- more likely -- if she says "I don't know, I'm just so confuuused . . . ", then think you should refuse to talk to her about anything else BUT that. "Honey, I still love you, and I don't want a divorce. I'd love to go to counseling and work on our marriage, and I'm willing to discuss ANY issue of mine that you feel I need to work on. But we can't possibly do that so long as there is a 3rd person in the middle of our marriage. End the affair, and we'll talk."
That needs to be your position, and you need to stick to it. While you do, you can do all of the "GAL" things that everyone talks about ("look good and smell good"), and shine a light back toward the marriage.
There is a 3rd party between you, and in case you haven't noticed, he does NOT have your marriage's best interests at heart.
Aimhigh gives you GREAT advice, and a great insight into your wife's POV right now. It really helped me to NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY when my wife acted a certain way, to know that this was her state of mind at the time.
Thanks to you Choc and Aimhigh for the words. I think I am stronger everytime I read a post in this thread.
In a few minutes, I am going to get that book (impact of divorce on kids) and give it a read. I suspect I will give it to her very soon so she can see what she is doing.
So at this minute, my plan is to lay low, improve myself, avoid negative confrontation, don't beg, and if the subject of the affair or our marriage is brought up by her, I will be telling her I am willing to talk until my lips turn blue as soon as she cuts it off FOR GOOD with the OM.
Good reference to the astronaut story. That is EXACTLY what this is. Sounds like many of our SOs have had "Nowak-syndrome", or some form of it.
It will be difficult to ignore that 800 pound gorilla in the room. But I am going to give it a go.
Why lay low? Unless I've missed something, you have a wife who agreed to cut off contact -- she just messed up. Ask her if she's still willing to end it, and come back and work on your marriage. As Aimhigh says, "don't oversell," or in ANY way beg or plead. Simply reiterate to her that you do NOT want a divorce, and you DO want to fight for her, and for your family, but that you see OM, rightfully, as an obstacle standing in the family's way.
The "for GOOD" part will NOT happen without a bullet-proof no-contact/transparency plan. It's not enough to simply count on her willpower and good character to pull it off.
Think "alcoholic" or "compulsive gambler" -- that's what you're dealing with.
I guess when I said 'lay low', I meant that I would not re-escalate the pressure I put on her on Discovery Day. I know she isn't ready to let him go yet, she has even said so 2 days ago. (She said the thought of never talking to him again is just too hard for her to think about right now.)
2 days ago, before I started posting here and discovered DB, I wrote her a letter asking just what you are asking (that she stop contact with him). Here is the jist of it:
Quote:
As difficult as it is for me, I guess it was unrealistic for me to ask you to promise never to be in contact with him again. But it is so unfair that he is getting your attention right now, and you and he are using each other as emotional support. From now on, can you to be drop-dead honest with me and yourself? If you want to see if this marriage can work, can you try to do it alone? I think every time you guys talk or are in contact, it puts your personal growth back several steps, and the wall of deception between us grows taller. If you keep feeding your need to see/talk/contact him, you will be in withdrawl forever and never be able to give yourself a chance to see things in from a different perspective. You will never get over him, if you keep having a relationship with him.
If he truly does care about you, he should want what is right for YOU. He should not be selfish about this, just like I am trying not to be selfish about this. As hard as it is for him, he should respect the idea that you need time alone to figure this out. I know it is hard for me, but I am showing that I am willing to do that for you.
I am not looking for you to owe me or anyone anything. I am looking for you to do this for yourself. Nothing more.
My pledge to you remains. I will give you the time and space you need to resolve your issues. Just know that I love you.
Her response to my letter was a sincere thank you, but it didn't have the impact I thought it would AT THE TIME. At that time, I was begging, pleading...I was trying to REASON with someone who cannot be reasoned with.
Now, some of that stuff i would not have written had I only found this discussion board and support group sooner. But what is done is done...
So, on Day 1 she agreed to cut off contact because she got caught, and felt immense guilt about it, and deep down I think she knows that she doesn't want to leave our life. On day 7 when I gave her the letter, she was still on her HIGH, and undecided about what to do. She is not willing to stop all contact. Back to some of your other commnets in other posts, she wants her 'cake' right now. And I agree with you, this is not acceptable.
I am learning that she has to be ready to give up her man-crack, and that I can't make her do it. She has to want to. BUT, I will continue to make it known that I am fighting for this, our family, our life. But that fight can't truly begin until she unconditionally gives up that OM. I get it now. It is just the waiting, patience, games, GAL, whatever that is going to be tough.
Am I really understanding all of this and what I should do? I don't know....
Ugh. I didn't get 25 words into it when I read this:
Quote:
As difficult as it is for me, I guess it was unrealistic for me to ask you to promise never to be in contact with him again.
((((rrrrr!!!! WRONG.))))
It is absolutely realistic, and reasonable, for you to ask your wife to never have contact with him again.
Is it realistic to ask an alcoholic to never again have another drink? Yes. It is easy?? No, it's damned hard, and it will be damned hard for your wife to go thru the pains of withdrawal, if she chooses to, and it'll tear YOUR heart out to watch her go thru it.
But why are you ASKING her to do -- "be faithful to our vows" -- what should simply be the STANDARD of any marriage?
You are not only begging and pleading, you are asking for permission to do the right thing.
No, Trying, you cannot MAKE her end her affair. But you can EXPECT her to, and you can CONVEY that as a very reasonable expectation of a husband who's in love with his wife and who is trying to fight to save his marriage and his family.
To anything less, I guarantee you, SHE sees as weak. And not only will "weak" not cut it at this point, "weak" just ain't attractive, either.
Sorry to be so harsh, but I don't know any other way to say it.
