A different approach from me, since the others have said what they've said so well...
I'm hoping you are serious about leaving your wife and the relationship alone for the foreseeable future. It's incredibly unhealthy for you. Your latest long post reads like a primer of what NOT to do for any newcomer to this board. Here's why.
1. You come across as needy, clingy, dependent.
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...if I had it to do over I would have made sure that we stayed in counseling and did the work we needed to do as individuals, and together, so we could get past the fears of asking for what we want.
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...I asked her how she felt about me...
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...I really needed help and support for my self esteem and anxiety but didn't reach out and ask for it because I thought I could fix myself, and I was ashamed that I was 'broken'.
2. You fall into the trap of buying into their BS.
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She says that she thinks I never felt 'safe' in our relationship and I told her that has been true for the past many years ...
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I told her I believed we could make it work if we would actually DO something but she is 'done'.
3. Your own attitude goes into the crapper.
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...but now I have to deal with her leaving so of course I'm not going to be fun
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I don't understand the need to make 'peace' ...
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I also don't understand what 'letting you go' means
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Feeling kind of sad, quiet, introspective
Relationship talk is bad. Particularly with a spouse who is not making much sense, at least in the rational world sense of the word.
I still agree with Amy, and have stated as much to you, that you need a break from your wife. It doesn't sound like the two of you will be separating in the near future, so I really think you should consider strongly taking at least a weekend away.
Use the time to do your introspection, chart your course for YOUR immediate future, maybe even do some of the spiritual exploration that it sounds like you might be starting.
Most of all, get away from the distraction that is your wife. Recharge your "Frank" batteries so that you can come home armed and equipped to make your way through the next several months.
It sucks Frank, but the truth is that there isn't much in the way of nourishment for you in this relationship right now anyway. Doesn't sound like there has been any for quite some time.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I'm hoping you are serious about leaving your wife and the relationship alone for the foreseeable future. It's incredibly unhealthy for you. Your latest long post reads like a primer of what NOT to do for any newcomer to this board. Here's why. ....
Relationship talk is bad. Particularly with a spouse who is not making much sense, at least in the rational world sense of the word.
Yes, I realized this after the conversation. Thing is she is calm, and seems to make sense to me when she's saying it. "We haven't been happy, it can't be fixed." I don't dispute this. We've had some good times, to be sure. She is very convincing and not hysterical. I'm starting to believe her.
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It sucks Frank, but the truth is that there isn't much in the way of nourishment for you in this relationship right now anyway. Doesn't sound like there has been any for quite some time.
No, there hasn't been. I don't know why I keep looking for 'hope' or continuing to hold on. Pretty crazy thinking.
As I have been told "Make yourself happy first". Then see what happens. No more feeling sorry for myself. Pain sucks.
By the way, I decided just to go with the flow. I'm nice, positive and if she does ask me anything divorce related I'll just agree with her and be indifferent.
Fighting it is wearing me out. When I overhear her talking to certain girlfriends it makes a shock go through my system. I don't like that and I know its from fear and neediness.
Being needy is pissing me off. I was never like this before. I don't like it at all and I will stop it.
Thing is she is calm, and seems to make sense to me when she's saying it.
I convinced my sister, mother, aunt, grandma, children, father, friends and Pastor's wife that I was doing the right thing when I decided I not only wanted but NEEDED a divorce.
Imagine their surprise when they heard the "POP!" of my head coming outta my butt later down the road...
Come to think of it, I just realized it was only my Pastor that never said a word.
Thing is she is calm, and seems to make sense to me when she's saying it.
I convinced my sister, mother, aunt, grandma, children, father, friends and Pastor's wife that I was doing the right thing when I decided I not only wanted but NEEDED a divorce.
Imagine their surprise when they heard the "POP!" of my head coming outta my butt later down the road...
Come to think of it, I just realized it was only my Pastor that never said a word.
Thing is she is calm, and seems to make sense to me when she's saying it.
I convinced my sister, mother, aunt, grandma, children, father, friends and Pastor's wife that I was doing the right thing when I decided I not only wanted but NEEDED a divorce.
Imagine their surprise when they heard the "POP!" of my head coming outta my butt later down the road...
Come to think of it, I just realized it was only my Pastor that never said a word.
Interesting.
Well, then I would have believed you too!
Although, I don't think my W is in MLC like you were Amy. I think she's just burned out with the way things have been. That doesn't mean she isn't responsible for some of it, and I think to some extent she takes some responsibility for some of her contribution. But only to the point where she can 'see' that she hung on and was 'mean' to me when she should have left instead.
But, that still doesn't give her a 'pass' to just decide to leave because we're 'growing in different directions', yet she has no exit plan.
Regardless, that's her problem. My problem is to find my own ways of being happy.
I am taking advice that I gave some other guys on the board, which was "Who would want to be around you when you are like this?" and being more positive and happy.
I also am internalizing that I do not 'need' my W's love to survive. I would like it, but I don't 'need' it. I will be fine without her, and maybe even better than fine. There are indeed many sweet, caring women who don't need to be 'taken care of' and can balance my personality better than she has. So, eventually I will find such a person when I least expect it.
Thinking this gives me strength because it helps me to see that maybe I'm not broken, and that I can shake off the mud and clear my head and heart again. I can succeed again.
So, I work to keep an attitude of 'my life is getting better because I choose to make it better'. Around W I maintain that positiveness, and I talk to her with an upbeat tone.
When I see certain behaviors from her I am not taking them to 'mean' anything, or I am striving to stay indifferent.
For example, last night she rolled over towards me in the middle of the night and her hand came to rest on my heart. I was awakened by this and reacted by holding her hand. But, after about a half minute I took my hand away and to my side. She still lay there with hers on me for another minute or so then moved away.
At first I was thinking it was a subconscious action by her, but instead I thought about how little it means. She rolled over, I was there, that's it.
This morning while I'm eating my breakfast she's kind of 'standing around' and seems happy today. Then she starts 'dancing around' like the other day, a little sashaying type thing. She's right across from where I am sitting eating. No music is playing.
In my mind I'm thinking "Is this for my benefit?". Don't care, and I look at my cereal bowl instead of at her.
Indifferent.
Later she starts telling me all about this 'energy work' she's doing with some friend of hers and how it's rebuilding her brain paths and stuff.
She says "So if it seems like I'm distant or anything it's because I'm going through a lot of introspection"
So I think "ok, why do you need to tell me this? Why do I care if you're 'distant'? Why do YOU care what I think?"
I validate and say "that sounds great, I'm glad you're getting something out of it." She suggested I try it also and I said that I might since it seems to be helping her.
She's gone to do the next session of this 'energy work' today. Hope it helps her get some clarity about real life. Who knows.
I'm seeing my counselor today finally. Boy will she be surprised to hear the story. I'm going to tell her to help me fix ME with the goal of detaching from W for REAL. I think she can be helpful. We'll see.
Doing my best to keep my attitude focused on positiveness, letting go of W, and allowing myself to be happy.
Sometimes I get the pangs of anxiety and hurt, but a lot less now. I think that is partly due to the change in my diet and the supplements I've been taking. They said it would take a couple weeks to see a change and it's been that long now.
I have tried to catch up with all that has been going on with you. There was a lot to read and I did a lot of skimming. Sadly, I find you are not any better than when I left.
1. Stop posting about every little thing your wife says or does. We here don't care to hear it, nor should you be obsessing about it.
2. Come to grips with the fact that your marriage is over, Frank. Over. Done. Finished. And, may I say, good riddance! You need to let this marriage die. It sucks. Maybe in the future, you will have a new relationship with W or someone else. Please, let this relationship go.
3. Realize that the MAIN REASON you are in this situation is that you NEVER fixed yourself. It doesn't matter how many DB bandaids you put on your marriage, Frank. YOU (Not your W) need to fix what ails YOU. If you ever want to be happy again, you have got to get to the bottom of your problems. Face your demons. Get back to being Frank. Use your strengths to pull yourself out of this.
4. Realize this is a very painful process. It's suppose to hurt. So stop sitting around wallowing in your pain. DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR FRANK. And I mean DO something. Take action. Don't sit around making lists. Don't think about it. Don't post about it. DO something.
I can't remember how far back it is. I've read a lot in the past day. But, this crap about W texting the dude from the band trip is exactly that, C.R.A.P. She is having an EA with the guy. Period. You wonder why so many people have a negative view of your W? Because we can see so clearly what you cannot. You are too messed up to face reality here, Frank. Her big boo-hoo session with you after she returned from Rome wasn't about her missing you. She found herself in another compromising position and somehow managed to twist that in to "you need to be more in tune with my wants and needs."
I love how Amy put it...she's an 8 year old in a woman's body.
I know how you come to her defense. I know how you say everyone thinks she is the sweetest, greatest person in the world. Well guess what, Frank? I was married to the same type. Everyone said, "Gee what a great guy". Your W possibly is a wonderful person, but in the context of your marriage, she is POISON.
I know you love your W. I believe she probably loves you, as best she can. But I am living proof that someone can love you and still not want to stay married to you. I know it is frustrating that she seems "happy" when she talks with her friends. Of course she is. She's made a life altering decision and has yet to feel the consequences of it. And hear me loud and clear, Frank. She does not have the capacity to feel your pain. She feels justified in the decisions she has made. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CHANGE THAT.
I want to hear from you. I want to hear about what you are doing for Frank. And I mean the real meat, Frank. Concrete things. I don't care if you are eating better or walking (good for you.) I want to hear about how you are using that magnificent brain of yours to make some real money. Do not be afraid to use the gift God gave you. Yeah, so you screwed up once. Hello. You may be a genius, but you are also human. Take back ownership of that gift. Embrace it. Use it to find your way back.
Lastly, I want to say that I do not believe in coincidence, Frank. Doesn't it make you stop and wonder why so many people of faith have been directed to your thread? It isn't accidental. God is here for you, Frank. He is the only one who can truly help you. Not your W. Not your friends here on the boards. Not your old friends. Go to Him, in faith, and ask for help. I promise you, He will help you. He is the one and only person who can get you "unstuck". A transformation will take place in your life that I cannot begin to describe. You will be overcome with a sense of peacefulness that you have never experienced.
Everything happens for a reason, Frank.
Love, Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
Finally saw my counselor today for 2 hours. Told her the whole story starting from when I last saw her, when she last saw W, and how I slowly declined.
I'll post more detail later but I thought I'd at least get her major response out for everyone to ponder.
She said:
Get away from her as fast as you can. I can see you are dying Frank, my God, you are already half dead. As long as you are interacting with her you are going to keep dying.
You did a great and courageous thing by using all your strength to pull her back into the marriage 2 years ago and you had every right to feel like it would be 'ok' for you to finally relax and expect to be supported and have someone else carry part of the load. But, even though the last meeting she had with W was about her understanding how weary Frank was, about how she needed to help him carry some of the burden, it never happened.
She cited several 'facts'. W never really did anything to make her business grow. She still isn't doing much.
anyway, she says that W is a caring, loving person who doesn't want to deal with the hard stuff in life.
She thinks she probably will walk out the door this time. But I might feel better when she does.
She said 'be selfish for once in your life'. She said I have been 'selfless' because that was how I was trained to be since I was a kid. It's the root of all my problems. I got married hoping that it wouldn't be that way any more, but I married someone who doesn't know what being selfless means. She also doesn't know what spiritual growth means.
Fixing the situation 2 years ago was my last chance and I did an honorable thing. She feels like my W just didn't understand what she needed to do to be in a marriage, and also 'grow spiritually'.
I'll post more later. I have to process my feelings.
