I hear this very thing from H. I also hear "If we are happy, the girls will be happy." Blah blah blah I agree with you that the kids might be fine in spite of the divorce, but yes, its pain and heartache that is not necessary.
When I R talk with H, I try to 'remove' the kids from our discussions. Because I think we all (you, me, your W, my H) know that kids are the most important here, they are the ones we'll have to watch out for, etc. But I want to know what my H wants, what will make him happy. These things (him being happy) will make him an even better parent.
There's a big difference between what's obvious, and attempting to change the way a spouse sees you to try and save the marriage.
You are right. This is the worst thing possible for the kids and yes, it will hurt them dramatically. I agree with you. But you telling your W this will only focus the problem more on you. That you are trying to stop her from doing what she wants to do. She is not thinking rationally, she is thinking selfishly, and nothing you say is going to change that. By pulling yourself out of this she can't reflect it back and you, and there's a better chance she'll have to figure these things out on her own. She lives with the kids most of the time. She'll see the destruction.
Yes, wish THEM well, *support* her selfishness, don't let her see you as the bad guy or parent trying to convince or control her. She will eventually realize she is hurting the kids on her own. This HAS to be on her own. Otherwise she'll always associate it with you and think of it as manipulation.
Yes, you can say, your first choice would be to stay together, and you would like to have your family together, but you can also say you care about her (even if there's larger part of you that would rather throw a cherry pie in her face) and would want her to decide where she'll be happiest, and wish her the best in the future.... And you'll be fine because you really don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Sheesh, I was extremely hesitant for my husband to come back unless he really truly wanted it. Heck, they could come back and then leave again tomorrow. My husband was famous for yo-yoing. I finally realized, through time and a lot of pain, I didn't want to go through that any more. It needed to be a 100% or nothing deal.
I hope that makes sense....
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Last week, H made a joke about OW and I said "See, you laugh, but I want to gouge your eyes out". He spit his soda out, and we both had a good laugh... Tension breakers are needed at times...
But yes, ROOT is right, always preface what you say with "This isn't what I want, I want our family intact...", then I tell H that I will always love him in some way, shape or form, and I want him happy.
Yep, you all have your heads on straight. I thank you for the guidance.
I haven't said that to her - "I want you to be happy. I care about you and I will be happy if you are happy. I wish you the best in whatever you decide." I don't think I've said anything like that to her, since this all began.
The closest I got was saying, "I don't think marriage is a life sentence. I don't want a death-grip marriage."
I've said "I want you to be happy" but it was always paired with, "tell me how I can help you be happy." It was always as a part of "let's be happy together."
Maybe I will write her a letter to that effect. As part of my drop the rope thing.
And I'm not just giving this lip service, honestly. Relations between us are not very good at the moment. At this point if I can get agreement with her on splitting time with my kids, and finances, I'll be happy.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
YIKES!!!! Don't you dare give her that letter!!! Write it and burn it.
You are in divorce and need to be extremely careful about anything you write and give to her. Anything written that you give to her always has the possibility of being used against you in court. Anything written should be emotionless, factual, pleasant and friendly. No relationship stuff!!!!
Also, always avoid anything that seems like pursuit. You should never call her first. Let her contact you and then just be friendly. You can ask "friend-like" how she's doing and say, "I hope you are doing good. I wish you the very best." Nothing that sounds more than friendship, nothing that sounds like you want to create a relationship. Also, use light humor whenever possible.
It's only if she seems interested in talking with you that you would share further thoughts.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
A couple weeks ago she gave me a letter - the letter she wrote on the day she filed for divorce two months ago. In it she described her feelings about me and the marriage, how it was irreconcilable. How I was abusive. How she loved me once, but no longer. It was a typed letter. She had written at the top "I guess it's finally time to give you this..."
Accompanying that letter was a bunch of other stuff, materials that describe domestic violence, emotional abuse, "how to tell if he's really stopping", and so on. Also a list of DV remediation programs.
I didn't ask for the letter. I didn't ask for an explanation of her actions.
It was hard for me to read. I didn't respond to this packet of stuff, except to say, "let me think about this and respond more thoughtfully, later." I never followed up.
Seems like she was reaching out. An opportunity for me to listen, learn, validate. I never responded.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
What do you mean "Yikes, don't write that letter" ???
I thought you said,
Quote:
Yes, wish THEM well, *support* her selfishness, don't let her see you as the bad guy or parent trying to convince or control her. She will eventually realize she is hurting the kids on her own. This HAS to be on her own. Otherwise she'll always associate it with you and think of it as manipulation.
Yes, you can say, your first choice would be to stay together, and you would like to have your family together, but you can also say you care about her (even if there's larger part of you that would rather throw a cherry pie in her face) and would want her to decide where she'll be happiest, and wish her the best in the future.... And you'll be fine because you really don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you.
do ya mean I should only say these things, and not write them?
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
By the way, one of my options for responding to her packet of information, is to register myself for one of the domestic violence or anger management programs. Her chief complaint about me, currently, is that I was abusive to her for 20 years, and only now is she seeing it.
Let me be very clear that W and I do not agree on this point. The DV and abuse talk only started last year, while she was still in contact with OM, but living in the house with me. This is when OM started dating, and I'm guessing when the "he is my soulmate" illusion was shattered. There's no protection order now, and there's never been a police response to our house for any reason. There's never been a doctor report or hospital visit. To be clear, she says I am a "batterer" but focuses on "emotional abuse."
So one of the options is for me to enter one of these programs voluntarily. I am wary of the stigma, and the implications it might have on my custody rights, should we divorce. Also I am concerned that I am responding rationally to what sure smells like MLC spew to me. Everything is all my fault, you see.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
If it were me, I wouldn't register. It would be tantamount to admitting that you have a problem in that area.
At the beginning of my wife's affair, NOP over on the SSM board warned me that "get read -- EVERYTHING will be your fault." Boy, was he sure right. "Even stuff you never DID will be your fault!" he warned me.
Tension breakers are needed at times...