She's ready to move on

[Michael Mc C]

Yesterday was a really good day here. After work I went to the gym. We were running a bit late for going out and W seemed a bit agitated by this. We didn't argue but she seemed to question everything I was saying and doing.

Even so, we went out, kids and all, and things were nice. W spent a lot of time in another part of the house watching the kids play a game. I spent most of the time in the kitchen with the rest of adults.

During the times we were both together the interaction was fun and friendly. We joked with each other and the other couples.

At around 11:00 the hostess had to run out to pick up her daughter. My D13 went with her and W told me "when D13 is back, we should get going, I have to work in the morning." I told her that was fine.

When D13 came back W told me we had to leave. I told her that I would like to finish my beer real quick and have a cigarette - I was in the middle of a discussion on the deck with a couple of women (friends). W kept poking her head out asking if I was ready to go. As I was opening the door D11 poked her head out - W asked her to check on me. I was out there for 10 minutes, tops.

So the conversation on the drive back home was upbeat with the kids but almost non-existent between me and W. We got home and she was ignoring me. This is where I slipped up...

I went downstairs and she was on MySpace. I said "Are you kidding me?" and walked away - real mature, I know. I was upset that I felt pressured to leave the party (I understand she had to work but the constant poking over that 10 minute period got to me).

She came upstairs grabbed her blankets and pillows from the bedroom and set the couch up. She said "Okay, so now I'm not allowed to check MySpace to see if my brother <visiting from Germany> sent a message about plans for the weekend. I never should have moved back into the bedroom because suddenly you have all these expectations. It's confusing things again. You were making comments all night long and, oh, if I opened my cell phone once tonight you would have given me a rash of sh@t but there you are texting all night."

I know I shouldn't have made the comment about seeing her on MySpace but I let it get to me. I should have bit my tongue and let it be - detach. I apologized but asked her to understand why I made the comment (she spends a LOT of time on MySpace, filling out surveys and stays up VERY late doing it). She didn't want to talk about it.

I explained that I didn't feel that I made any comments to her that should have upset her during the evening so I asked her to tell me what comments were made. She didn't have any examples but "it happened".

I told her that I used my cell phone twice that night. The first time was to call my boss's boss because SHE suggested it - we just found out that our friend got a job at his friend's restaurant. The second time was when I tried to send a picture of one of the guests to a friend of mine - they look very similar.

So I don't know what's going on. Maybe we're just a volatile combination anymore. I've posted before about how anytime we have a good day/night together, her mood ends up in the crapper. I don't know if this is another one of those situations. I think it could have something to do with my rediscovered confidence and lack of willingness to bend to her every whim:

- In the past I would have skipped going to the gym because I knew time would be tight, or I would have skipped dinner so I could get a shower before going out.

- In the past I would have jumped up and left as soon as she said it was time to leave the party.

- In the past I would have been with her for a majority of the time at the party.

I know that she needs to see me as being confident and not allowing myself to be walked all over. When I do these things it just pisses her off and I feel I push her farther away. Maybe my technique needs work. I just don't know where the right balance is.

[Michael Mc C]

Ahh, the ol' bait and switch tactic, my W is becoming a pro at that one (and I appear to be the consummate sucker - a little 3 card monty anyone?)

So in the past 2 weeks W has alluded to intimacy 3 times but has had a change of heart every time. Yesterday morning was quite a bit more than alluding however. Me, being me, thought this was fantastic and because I was so very much looking forward to it, W got EVERYTHING she asked for yesterday.

Sucker!!

By the end of the night she was feeling depressed, pressured and told me once again that I have all these crazy expectations.

So, either I am failing some tests here (approval seeking, pushing, whatever) or my wife just knows how to get things to go her way.

One day I may learn this stuff. I went to bed last night (alone of course) asking myself why I continue to let this happen and why I get sucked back in so easily. The answer, of course, is that I still feel she controls my happiness and that if it feels like we're married then we can't be too far from REMAINING married.

I need to kick this addiction. Time to refocus (again). My guess is that she saw my indifference at the party on Friday and again on Saturday and needed to pull me back in. She needed to feel safe without committing to anything. She knows the way I roll...

Gotta stop rolling that way!!! She sees me "slipping away" and casts her line. She knows I will always take the hook. Catch and release is her M.O. She pulls me in, she's satisfied with the results and throws me back.

Where does that leave me? Right here wondering why I haven't made any progress for me. Oh well, this will sink in one day. It had better...

[hopeforfuture]

Mike,
I just caught up on your thread from the past week or so and see so many similarities between your W's actions and those of my W in the recent past. Let me just preface this by saying that the affair in my W's case ended about two weeks ago. Before this, things were generally good, and there was some occasional affection, but she would invariable pull back and tell me that she didn't want me to get the wrong impression. She was being nice, but had no intention of working on us because she was still involved. About two weeks ago, a lot of stuff went down, and she made a commitment to really make an effort to work on us and to also stop seeing the OG. Things improved a great deal in my mind but I could see that she was still confused and hesitant. I believe that she really wasn't convinced that she could or should be working on the relationship. She still had very strong feelings for OG and was torn on this. Fast forward to this past weekend...

We just did the Retrouvaille weekend and there has been a drastic shift in the commitment to our relationship on both of our parts. I was hopeful going into the weekend and saw it as a last resort to fix the marriage. My W was skeptical and hesitant. On Friday night, it was obvious that all of the couples (18 couples I believe) were having a hard time interacting. By the middle of Saturday, most of the couples were sitting closer and holding hands. There was a definite shift in communication and affection. We completed the weekend on a completely different level than when we went in. We both acknowledge that there is a lot of work ahead of us, but we are both committed now to doing what it takes to get there. The Retrouvaille weekend gave us the tools and the determination to fix our relationship and family and we are both really looking forward to this.

I know you had mentioned Retrouvaille as a possibility in the past. You should definitely suggest it to your W to as an option if only to improve communication between the two of you. I know when we signed up, but W agreed only half heartedly, but it ended up working out and was well worth it. There are a few coming up in NJ over the next few weeks. It is definitely worth looking into.

[Michael Mc C]

Thanks HFF, and it's great to hear from you. I am very happy to see that Retro went well for you and your W. Obviously not a miracle cure but something that opens your eyes to effective communication. This is definitely something I would like to see me and my W get into. It doesn't feel like the right moment though, even with communication as the selling point.

My wife has been telling people that she is now indifferent towards OM but I can see/feel that this is not the case. She's trying to convince herself that she is. She's better than she was but still gets mired in depression.

But enough about her. I need to really continue what I have been doing today (with one very minor slip up). Since I am no longer desired in the role of husband, it's time for me to stop providing those things she has become accustomed to. She suggested that I work upstairs today because it was so cold in my office but I told her that I had turned the heat on and stayed in the office. She asked me to join her during my lunch break but I explained that I had to prepare some food for dinner.

I'm not pushing her away but I am also not running to her every time SHE wants to see me.

My slip up was very minor, I think. We had to go to MIL's house to pick up a car and W mentioned she needed some notebooks for school (starting up tomorrow). I told her that since I was running out the gym I would pick them up for her. Nothing major but in hindsight I think I should have waited for her to ask.

One interesting thing (I'm sure no one will be offended by this). While I was preparing dinner during my lunch break she asked for a cigarette. My hands were full of potatoes so I told her they were in my left pocket. She reached in and said in a mischievous voice "better be careful of what I pull out." We both laughed, of course.

This is the kind of comment she would have made a LONG time ago, not typical of her current behavior. However, my current behavior shows that this is EXACTLY the kind of comment I would make. I restrained myself and was surprised that she said it instead.

I think she is very much in tune with my behavioral shifts. She knows when she needs to try pulling me back in, to reassure herself I guess. It's interesting to see this happen. I need to work on staying consistent though.

[LL44]

That's funny!! She is trying to get along with you, enjoy your time together. That's good. I don't think you slipped up at all. We are supposed to treat our spouses like friends/roommates. You would have done that quick errand for your friend, right?

[Dr LOve]

Mcc Buddy,

I agree with Lwb. No slip up... there is a difference from being walked on and doing it because it is the right thing to do. It is kind of weird that I can see again some parallels to our sitches....Let me know if it seems that the less you do for her if the more she starts doing for you... Jus little things.... And I mean this nicely the less respect (for lack of a better word) you have for her, the more she has for you.......It's a strange” game"...... the less I ask "permission" I.E can I have the last muffin or can I do this or that. the more she asks me if she can have the last muffin or can she do this or that.....It seems that the dominate person in the house hold is the one that the other lets dominate.... Ya know what I mean?? We gave them all of the power and then acted like a hurt puppy.... Now we are the big dogs.......

Dr. Love

[Michael Mc C]

Thanks lwb and husband!

You are so right husband. I have multiple examples from today alone. W asked me if she could make me breakfast, asked me to work upstairs, asked me to spend my lunch with her, asked me to come up for coffee, offered to load my plate at dinner.

Most of these things ended a while ago. I did, of course, take her up on certain things (breakfast, dinner and coffee). I did not want to avail myself to her every whim. Hell, the last time she started asking me to work from upstairs was before OM came back. When he did come back, I mentioned those invitations to her and she said it had nothing to do with reconnection it was because she needed another 'person' to interact with. A body, any body.

Nice.

Anyway, I will continue on this path as best I can. It's amazing how much strength can come from behaving deliberately instead of in a 'programmed' fashion.

[hopeforfuture]

Thanks HFF, and it's great to hear from you. I am very happy to see that Retro went well for you and your W. Obviously not a miracle cure but something that opens your eyes to effective communication. This is definitely something I would like to see me and my W get into. It doesn't feel like the right moment though, even with communication as the selling point.

My wife has been telling people that she is now indifferent towards OM but I can see/feel that this is not the case. She's trying to convince herself that she is. She's better than she was but still gets mired in depression.

Mike,
I can understand your hesitation, but as I said in my last post, it sounds like you are your W are very close to the point that we were at prior to the weekend. I'm sure your W is still struggling with feelings for the OG. My W was also. This weekend really gave her hope that she could get past that.

My slip up was very minor, I think. We had to go to MIL's house to pick up a car and W mentioned she needed some notebooks for school (starting up tomorrow). I told her that since I was running out the gym I would pick them up for her. Nothing major but in hindsight I think I should have waited for her to ask.

Doesn't sound like you were being a doormat. You were being kind and considerate. That's a good thing.

One interesting thing (I'm sure no one will be offended by this). While I was preparing dinner during my lunch break she asked for a cigarette. My hands were full of potatoes so I told her they were in my left pocket. She reached in and said in a mischievous voice "better be careful of what I pull out." We both laughed, of course.

This is good also. W and I shared moments like this also during the not so good times. It seems as though they know that they really love you deep down and sometimes slip at moments like this. Then catch themselves and pull away again.

Sounds like you are doing very good overall. Keep it up.

[Michael Mc C]

HFF - Even with the A over now, my W insists that we HAVE to divorce at this point. She doesn't believe that the relationship with OM was a mistake, even though OM is now working on his own marriage. She is so dead set against marriage right now. She keeps telling me that we have "blurred the lines" - meaning that although we're friendly and were sleeping in the same bed, there should be no expectation that we are going to try to remain married.

She has moved back to the couch and once again seems adamant about this. It's a cycle she's gone through in the past. Maybe this time I just need to stick to my guns and, like Frank_D once told me, don't let myself get sucked back in too easily (which is exactly what happened the day AFTER Frank mentioned that to me in November...)

[hopeforfuture]

Mike,
I forget, did either of you file papers? If she says you have to divorce but no one has filed yet, who does it? What is she waiting for?

In my situation, I was at the point where I had begun the filing process. Papers were filled out and my W recommitted to me days before I was going to go sign them.

Keep Retrouvaille as a possible option. Even if she is dead set against staying married (or so she thinks), spin the weekend as a way to improve your communication. You have children together and you need to maintain a good relationship for their sake. Keep working on improving yourself, and just maybe she'll soften her stance a little bit and get the point where she considers it.