Tied to the Whipping Post

[kissak]

Kissak, that's funny, did she sound ok, or was she a secret weapon too?

I just looked at your sig line, and the gone again date and kids ages. I hope he got a lump of coal.

Actually the lady on one side me can sing pretty well....On the other side of me, well, lets just say I cup my hand over my ear on that side more than the other!!

OH, and the lump of coal?? He has that now. It is called the OW.

[Punktmann]

Kissak, that's good stuff. He got the lump of coal all right.

A relative of mine disagreeed with me about giving her a gift, he said, "give her a lump of coal and tell her where to put it so it will become diamond."

I cleaned that up a bit but it's still funny.

[Punktmann]

Yesterday morning, W was very angry, impatient w/ the kids and refused to speak to me. She slammed the door so hard when she left that it shook the wall. (And she wonders why she has to keep replacing the bulb in the exterior lamp right next to the door.)

Last night, after putting the kids to bed, W sort of started an R conversation. I was not really in the mood to have an R talk. I know, what spouse of an MLCer wouldn’t jump at the chance? I just wasn't in the mood. At one point, she said XYZ friend, ( a close friend of hers and the family,) thinks I still love you. "I said it doesn't matter." I left the room. I didn't feel right about that, it felt like I said something smart aleck, and I didn’t like leaving it on that note.

I went back to her, and said that I was sorry if I was abrupt. It did turn into an R talk, but for once, there was no anger from either of us. Nothing was said that would indicate a reconciliation, but it was very honest and calm, and lasted about an hour. Unfortunately, she seemed to want to hear what I thought more than for her to talk.

Some of the highlights:

Some things I said,

I said that I wanted her to understand that I was not angry with her, and that I was doing everything that I can to give her space. I said that I thought she knew how I felt about the D, but that I had finally gotten to the point that I will be fine either way, and that whatever happens, I won't be alone the rest of my life. (this last thing slipped out, and thankfully, it wasn’t said in a self righteous way. ) In that vein, I also said that I thought that she had felt like I was angry at her recently, b/c she had been asking me about that a lot, and that Ithought that the change in my behavior was not anger, but that I had stopped walking on eggshells for her, b/c I had finally realized that what is going on is not about "what is wrong with me." I also told her that I wasn’t perfect, and that I wasn’t trying to say that I couldn't have been a better husband. Also, what was going on was not "her fault," as in bad intentions, but that it is something that a lot of people, both men and women go through.

Some things she said,

Both her (early and short lived,) IC, and our MC told her that she was going through a MLC. This was a dramatic revelation, b/c prior to this, I had told her on occasion, (during fights, usually,) that I thought that her feelings were typical of an MLC. Until last night, she would deny this vehemently, and was furious at the suggestion. Duh, who would receive that well? She mostly just asked me questions though.


Some interplays that are worth noting.

I told her that I knew of a website that had a support forum for women who are in MLC, and that if she wanted to know about it, I would tell her the address, and that if she wanted it, I swear to her on my honor as a RTY, that I would never look at that site again. I meant it, and I think she knew what I meant by that oath.

She didn't ask me for the web address. I hope that she searches for it.


When I realized that I was doing most of the talking, I finished what I was saying, and just waited for her to talk or ask me another question. She sat quietly for a few minutes, and said something to the effect of well, it is what it is. I said yes, you're right, and got up to leave. She stopped me, and wanted to talk some more.



At the end, I stepped forward and kissed her on the top of her head and said "I love you." She replied, "I'm sorry," in a manner that suggested "I am sorry you love me because I'm a bad person," I said "I'm not." And left.

[Punktmann]

Today, she went to work on a Saturday, and I did some chores and went shopping w/ the boys. She came home just in time for a late lunch, and after lunch, she was talking to me, and mentioned that she had had a hard couple of days. I said I hope that I didn’t contribute to that too much, and that I wish that I had done more listening than talking last night. She said "no, you were fine."

She hemmed and hawed about it a bit, but then said, I got a call from Polly (The original OM's W,) day before yesterday, she wanted to meet with me. I asked her about what? She said that Polly had received a phone call from a man who said that she and OM were having an A. She said that she met with Polly, and Polly asked her Are you sleeping w/ my husband?, and W said no. Polly asked her are you friends w/ my H, and W said yes. Polly asked her do you go to lunch w/ my H? and W said no, I go to the gym w/ my friend ABC. Polly asked again, are you friends w/ my H, and W said, yes, I just told you that I am. Polly said I don’t want you to be friends w/ my H. W said to me, if that is what she wants then I won’t be friends w/ her H.

W said that Polly called her again on Friday and they talked some more but that it was just the same things again.

So W said that I have had a hard couple of days, and it is all my own fault.

I said that fault is a word that implies meaning to do something, and that I don’t like the word. I said that b/c she presented it as surprising that Polly would believe this. I was not wanting to be accusatory, but more to wait and see what she said (or didn't say.)

W broke off the convo, and I left it alone and STFU.


At one point, I did ask her if Polly knew who it was that called, and W said she had a phone number, but that she couldn't get anyone to answer her calls. I said that if she had the phone number, she should be able to figure out who it was. I stopped short of offering to help figure that out. It’s not my problem.


I know that W was at least a little bit trying to see if I was the one who called OM’s W, but since I wasn’t, and my demeanor didn’t show that, I think that she either didn’t think I did, or is still undecided.


W spent the next few minutes griping about who would do something like that, just to wreck OM's career, and life.

Ok, I validated, but sorry, no sympathy here.

She also said that she told Polly that she thought OM should quit his job at the company, and that some people were out to get him. She said that she thought it was interesting that Polly said that she had told OM the same thing.

I spent most of this time listening and validating what she was going through.

I never said anything about her and the OM, or the situation in general, I mostly just listened.


I have thought about calling Polly for a long time, but I never did. It seems that I didn't have to, someone else did it for me.

There has been a lot of talk at her job about W and OM, and it finally came to a head.

At one point, W told me that OM's boss told him that he should watch himself, or someone would call his W about him and my W.

Also, W told me once a couple of years ago that OM had told her that his W suspected that they were having an A. She seemed to think that this was weird, and that I should also think it was weird.

I didn’t think it weird; b/c there was an EA going on at the very least. WTF?

After the D bomb, some rumors started flying at her job about W and OM, and W blamed me for starting them. Of course, it came to nothing, since I hadn’t.



Very interesting though.

[w8ing]

Geez Punk....what a wierd spot to be in. I bet she does suspect that you were the one who called.

Do you think she is peeking or is she moving ahead at full steam to get the D?

[Punktmann]

((((W8ing,))))

It is weird. Really.


I know that she thinks it was me. Since it wasn't, I am leaving it alone. My demeanor will not betray me since I didn't do that. Jumping on the convo as a chance to deny that I did it would only make it look like I did.

She has brought it up a couple of times since then. Briefly, and I suspect mostly to gauge my reactions. It must suck to be married to someone like me, who can control those reactions regardless, but esp since I didn't. Too bad for her.




It's funnym I think she is finally peeking out of the tunnel, but she is still moving full steam ahead for the D.

I couldn't begin to put everything we talked about in the posts above, but the things she said were things like "I know that I am in MLC, or a ML transition, but that is not all that is going on, there is more." Her demeanor when she said this was such that I could tell that she was still on the fast track to D. I think that "there is more," meant that she still has some anger and blame reserved for me. Oh well.

While that is NOT what I want, I AM pleased that she is finally self-examining enough to see that MLC is at least a part of the problem.

Since I don't have any control over the rest, it is what it is, and I am giving it to God.



All considered, I think this is a positive, but only a baby step.

I am too tired of having hope crushed to think of it as anything else.

For me, a baby step is a giant leap forwards, I guess I should just leave it at that.

Punk.

[sleeper]

Morning Punktmann,

Just read your last couple of posts. You and I are almost in exactly the same sitch;

Wife in mlc (but mine doesn't acknowledge), feels she must be "unattached" for a time to heal (next time she says that I'm going to ask how can she be unattached while OM is fused to her side?)

Wife has filed, but not persuing D full steam, brings up when cycling anger or having money issues.

W seems to be peeking out of tunnel, more like herself, connecting to children, now apologizes for angry outbursts quickly after they occur.

And lastly, W and OM have made some enemies along the way who have spread rumors, etc. There was even a confrontation with said enemies that resulted in criminal charges and a pending court date. I have done nothing to interfere and am not suspected for any of the rumors. There are things I could do to interfere with their R and I don't believe I would be suspected at all but have not. I am very,very tempted.

[JMC]

Wife in mlc (but mine doesn't acknowledge), feels she must be "unattached" for a time to heal (next time she says that I'm going to ask how can she be unattached while OM is fused to her side?)

My W does not acknowledge either, and pretty much said the same thing about wanting/needing to be 'alone', which, like your sitch, there was and is an OM.

[sleeper]

Just had a realization,

Wife says she "needs" to be alone to heal which includes discovering who she is, etc. In the beginning she said, "You go deal with your stuff, I'll go deal with mine and we'll see what happens." On some level she knows she has "stuff" to deal with and she was correct in that I had "stuff" to deal with.

My realization is this; I always accepted her "need" to be unattached as a "need." I now see it as a want, not a need. Like a little kid, they're going to say need because it has a higher importance than want. Proof that it is just a want and not a need is that she is so attached to OM.

Another disadvantage of being a guy and taking statements literally rather then intuitively as women do. Also a personal disadvantage of believing what people tell me is true.

[Punktmann]

Sleeper, I read most of your curent thread, and I thought the same thing, we're in just about the exact same place.

I guess our W's have the same version of the "MLC handbook."

And lastly, W and OM have made some enemies along the way who have spread rumors, etc. There was even a confrontation with said enemies that resulted in criminal charges and a pending court date. I have done nothing to interfere and am not suspected for any of the rumors. There are things I could do to interfere with their R and I don't believe I would be suspected at all but have not. I am very,very tempted.

I found this VERY interesting. My W and the OM work together, and have made the same "enemies" at that place. From what she has said over time, there were a few instances with OM and those people that could have turned in to situations requiring police contact, but so far it hasn't happened.

Like you I have done nothing to interfere, but boy, did I want to sometimes. That is the very essence of temptation to me.

At this point, I am glad that I didn't. The way it is playing out seems to be causing introspection as to the consequences of their actions, and since I'm totally divorced from it, (good pun heh?) I'm not a scapegoat for the blame.

Thanks man.