I think when your husband comes home from his "date," you and the kids should be gone. Seriously. He's "cake-eating." He gets to have his girlfriend, and he also gets you to cook and clean for him, and care for his kids while he goes out, and show kindness towards him.
He'll stop doing that when you stop allowing him to.
But you know I physically can't stop him from dating the OW, and according to DBing, I thought we were supposed to act friendly, happy, and detached which is what I have for the most part been doing. I did ask him to be discreet for the sake of the kids, to be a good role model for them, which he has refused to do (basically admitting to be a poor father I guess.) So are you both saying I should ask for separation or divorce at this point because of his actions?
First of all, you don't ask him to not do it in front of the kids, you tell him. And no, I'm not saying you should necessarily ask for separation or divorce because of his actions. What I think we're BOTH saying is, that there is a basic fundamental level of respect that you need to ask for from important others in your life, and I strongly suspect that you've been allowing your husband to disrespect you in a number of areas and it's part of the problem.
This is an opportunity.
One of the positive side-effects from the HORRIBLE situation of infidelity is, we get to work on ourselves, and out of it can come tremendous strides, if we are courageous. You -- like me -- I think have more of a boundary-setting (and -enforcing) issue than you have even a marital issue, and you need to learn how to better handle it.
Can you think back, as best you can, what were the actual words you used when asking your husband not to carry on right in front of you? Can you give us a pretty-close dialogue, both yours and his? Perhaps we can help you with what you might have said.
One thing that comes to mind immediately is, when he said "You can't stop me from having an affair," I would have said "No, I can't -- that's your foolish and selfish choice alone, and I won't accept any responsibility for it. But as the mother of our children, I can DAMNED sure tell you that I won't allow them to be harmed in this, and I also will not allow you disrespect ME, in FRONT of me. So I suggest you go do that someplace else. My patience is not limitless, and I will no longer tolerate the disrespect."
If he refused, and just kept e-mailing her, then the next time he came from from being with her, I would have had all of his sh_t out on the front lawn, and the locks changed.
Jesus was a loving, patient man. But he also knew when to throw over the money-changers' tables and summon up His righteous indignation. "Righteous indignation" is what you're going for, Karen -- not pettiness, or meanspiritedness or even just raw anger. Think "mama bear protecting her cubs."
I don't think DBing means being treated like a doormat.Your H is a a$$hole. He just seems to want to see how much he can play with you and how far he can push you.
My H used to give me a hard time when I was really depressed and not doing stuff around the house. Then he suddenly seemed to not be so bad - that's when his A started - unbeknownst to me. He didn't care about me anymore and what I got upto so he no longer got so stressed.
I DID realise I was depressed and very unhappy and the M was in a bad sitch. I sought help. Took me a few times to find the right therapist, ( I tended to play with them a bit - like it sounds your H does - not for the same reasons but it is hard to open up and accept someones advice / outlook / opinions if you don't think them to be on the same intellectual level or you think they just don't 'get' you). My current T will let me wander off and digress and procrastinate at times but he always has a way of DRAGGING me back to what I was avoiding and making me face it. My H saw the changes in me and that's what made him tell me about his A. I set boundaries and my T and psychiatrist backed me up with H and we haven't looked back. I would not accept an OW in my M. Once I knew of her existence we had a week in which my H had to make up his mind what he was going to do. I would not give him longer.
BTW, one of the reasons he had avoided me a bit when I was 'getting better' but before he told me about the A was because he was attracted to me again, ( I had lost weight and was looking and behaving more like I did pre kids etc), and he didn't want to be tempted away from OW!!!!!!!!GIT!!!!! The fact that he is trying to hurt you by his comments and behaviour makes me think he does care still - why bother if you meant nothing. Maybe he is trying to hurt you because he has felt hurt,(for whatever reason), in the past. Hate and Llove are closely linked I believe - total indifference I consider to be much worse.
Keep going girl and don't let that H of yours disrespect you. Set boundaries. Don't be a doormat. You are a clever lady and don't let your H make you think otherwise. BTW your D sounds very astute - how sad she can see what a a$$hole her dad is.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Preschool went well today! The kids were sweet and took my mind off my problems for over an hour which was good. I went to a volunteer workshop after that lasted 2 hours so that was more time away from my problems.
Thanks again for your comments! I have often thought that H might have feelings for me that maybe he doesn't even realize. I think he is still angry at me for the past 2 or so years of depression in which I was not a good wife to him, I must admit, I wasn't cleaning or cooking much and really wasn't being a good wife & if I was an H I would not want to have been married to me. In saying that, I do understand there were reasons for that, but it is all true. I don't know how to exactly deal with that, having said that, how to get him to deal with the anger, he is seeing a therapist for his anger issues, and maybe the therapist can help him see that? Maybe it will just take time and me getting healthier for a while? It has only been 2 months. Saffie, that's interesting about the "lost weight" comment b/c I have lost 30 lbs. of the 40 I gained during when I was depressed and am looking pretty much how when we fell in love/married, and I am still working on losing the last 10.
I can't remember how I approached the email comments back then, but several different ways in all, there were many conversations about that. Re: the saturday date, after he told me he would be dating her on Saturday night b/c he hadn't seen her enough that week (M-F nights and Saturday morning not being enough) I approached it something like "I would appreciate you being discreet and not blatant and trying to be as good a role model for the kids as possible (as you can be in this situation anyway)." That is when he yelled at me that he would date whenever he wanted. So what would you suggest I should have said or done in that situation, cause I thought that was pretty good from me (didn't have time to think what I was going to say you know) for that Saturday night date situation?
Also, even though H threatens that if he breaks up with this OW, that he will date others, because we got together at a young age, 19 & 21, do you think this will def. happen? One positive thing I thought about this comment is that kind of comment doesn't seem to indicate true lasting love with the OW, does it? Or am I just reading too much into that maybe? Anyway, thanks again everyone for your insights!!!
"Thank you for telling me; I appreciate your honesty. (LOOK HIM STRAIGHT IN THE EYES) No matter how you feel about me right now, we are still married, and I expect you to respect that. If that's indeed where you're going tonite, I and the kids will not be here when you get home, and all of your things will be on the front lawn and you'll find that your key no longer works. If you think I'm kidding, you really underestimate me."
And then walk away, and be cheerful in any further encounters with him before he leaves.
Of course, if you say that, you have to be prepared to DO that.
This is just my opinion, but you are being FAR too nice to the jerk. No, you don't need to lower yourself to his level, but you don't need to be a pleasant doormat, either.
Let me ask you this, Karen: can you tick off even a very short list for me of what have been the negative repercussions of your husband breaking his marriage vows, and of you knowing about his infidelity?
"Let me ask you this, Karen: can you tick off even a very short list for me of what have been the negative repercussions of your husband breaking his marriage vows, and of you knowing about his infidelity?"
From the kid's comments they think a lot less of him, my son doesn't have much of a relationship with him, and if he continues, I think my D8 will eventually have the same. If we reconcile, my H will have to go through months of counseling to repair the damage he has done to our relationship. He had a lot of respect from some people, like our pastor, and some friends and family members, that I think he has lost, as well. He's not feeling very good about himself as well: when I said I thought the OW was a slut or tramp or something early in the relationship, he said he was no better than her.
Those are all very real things from which he's going to have to deal with the fall out. I'm sure he's not thinking things thru; the brain chemicals are taking over at this point.
But I was thinking more about "repercussions" from YOU. Some examples from my own situation were:
- my wife no longer had her husband paying for her cellphone, since I told her that he would no longer pay for a phone that she was using to carry on an affair. Since she only had a part-time job, and limited funds, this was very painful for her;
- my wife had to deal -- DAILY -- with the scorn and pressure from her parents, since I exposed the affair to them;
- my wife had to deal with the watchful eye of her employer, to whom I had also exposed their affair, since it occurred on their premises;
- my wife had to deal with the deep disappointment of our 20- and 18-year old daughters, since I exposed the affair to them;
- my wife had to begin paying for her own credit card bill, since the balance was mostly the tummy tuck that we had charged up, because I told her "I will no longer pay for something that you used to attract the affections of another man";
- my wife lost the daily "best friends" relationship with her betrayed husband. No longer could she tell me about the struggles of her day at work, or dream with me, or bring me her cares and concerns. We dealt solely with the kids and the day-to-day "business" stuff of the family that had to be done, but I wasn't about to give her my shoulder for support, AND I TOLD HER SO. I could literally SEE the pressure of all of her deceit -- trying to balance the lies of the affair -- on her face and on her shoulders, but I was NOT going to rescue her from it.
Is that "mean"? I don't think so. I treated her with everyday kindnesses (pulled her car in the garage for her, covered her up with a blanket when she fell asleep on the couch, opened doors for her, etc.), but I was NOT going to treat her with the same undying devotion and love that I did when she was faithful to me.
NOP, on the SSM board, gave me a mantra by which I lived: "Never rescue an infidel from the consequences of their actions." I let certain natural consequences kick in, without protecting or rescuing her from them, and others I set in motion.
These things had the following results:
1) They allowed my wife to feel the consequences of her infidelity;
2) They gave me some much-needed self-esteem, at a time when mine had been shredded by the pain of her infidelity;
3) They actually made me MORE ATTRACTIVE to my wife, as she saw me fighting for her and for our family;
4) My parents, her parents, and our children saw me fighting for our marriage and for our family.
Choc eyes, just wanted to thank you for posting on Infidelity. You have no email or I would have gone that route. You are 'referenced' a lot when new men come on here, for a good example of how to handle things. But you are an amazing resource to me (as a chick lol) as well, and I appreciate it.
