You are getting much better advice than I could ever dream up. But the one piece of advice that hasn't been written is some advice that YOU gave me several months ago. I told you that I was afraid of what would happen if I did XYZ. I can't remember the exact quote, but it involved you calling me a wuss and other things.
You know what you need to do for Frank. Do it. Godspeed my friend, I am praying for you.
John
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
Frank going to reitirate this one more time in writting so you can read this as many times as you need.
Keeping up this cycle of depression you have absolutely NO chance, zero, of what you deep down want to happen.
Getting back, your pride, your stability, your self esteem and your strength, you have a chance. And that is the only way you have a chance.
A chance. Even if that chance is as small as the likelyhood of being stung to death by killer bees in Norway, it sure the hell beats the odds of ZERO.
Its almost Feb, you have until June, maybe sooner. How long do you want to wallow, and put off doing what you know you have to do.
Winning is not handed to you, don't fall for the modern day mediocrity that every who plays gets an award BS.
Failure is commonplace. Easly awarded to those who don't try all the way up to those who do try and manage to come in second. Edit - one of my favorite funny quotes "Second Place - First place for losers."
Failure is easy, and becomes easier and easier to swallow and accept once you get used to the taste.
Don't get used to the taste Frank.
Last edited by Jack_Three_Beans; 01/19/0812:07 AM.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Don't slip back into "desperate" just because you feel the foundation slipping.
All that CAN be shaken WILL be shaken.
Do you have faith in anything other than Frank? I do realize you've got one eye trained on us to see if we come up with anything good but really, are you faithless?
The stuff your wife is dabbling in has undercurrents you wouldn't believe.
Do you have faith in anything other than Frank? I do realize you've got one eye trained on us to see if we come up with anything good but really, are you faithless?
The stuff your wife is dabbling in has undercurrents you wouldn't believe.
What if the only hope you had was in prayer?
Would you humble yourself?
Could you?
Just a thought...
No, I have never really had faith in anything other than Frank.
When I lost faith in Frank, I lost everything.
Sven suggested I embrace her need to divorce and allow myself to believe that in the end I'm better without her because she hasn't been the woman I need for the past several years. I've been a broken man who needed a woman who could help me fix myself.
Now, I have myself to fix on my own, and I don't have the burden of fixing her any more. It hurts but like Becca also said "You're still DB'ing. Stop it".
Originally Posted By: becca
stop doing that let it go let her do what she needs to do the sooner you can do that, the sooner you can be on the right track, to either making your marriage work, or moving on
you've spent too much time dbing, and you did a damn good job of it but right now, saving YOU is more important than saving your marriage
she's off her freakin rocker
(frank: how can you say that? She's been in a 'bad' relationship and just has had enough) Becca: bullsh@!t when are you goign to put some responsibility on her? that is you still taking all the blame she hasn't been in a BAD relationship she's failed to love the man who loved her a whole lot and who provided for her and who gave up himself, his whole sense of identity, for HER she doesn't know what a BAD relationship is
no, you aren't perfect you have issues too but she has not yet taken responsibility for herself it is all about how YOU failed bullsh!t you didn't force her to have multiple affairs that is an ethical issue that she needs to own up to like you said, she sure as hell has the strength to be supportive to other guys but she can't support YOU? no, that is HER flaw, not yours give her half the blame at least
had been married to him for as long as you have been married. Because I said for better, for worse, in sickness and in health, and in EVERY relationship, there is a time where one partner has to carry a little more weight, then that one will have a down moment and the other takes over some of the load
it is never 50/50 what she should have done was sit down with you and say "frank, what can we do? What can I do? How can we get help?"
but she wasn't 'strong enough' right no....she just didn't have the nerve to take that kind of responsibility on because you are the protector, the caretaker the provider she wants to rag at you for not taking care of YOURSELF....but look at her? she fails over and over again in being supportive, but she doesn't have to fix that? she can just move on? she doesn't see it as being a problem, apparently easier to move on than to put for the effort you deserve so much more like i said the other day, SHE should be trying to win YOU back
frank_D: even though she has been really hurt by my faulires, and my behaviors? you've been hurt by HER failures and behaviors the difference is, you carried her when she failed she just let you fall not only that She ultimately abandoned you in your time of need.....and then has the nerve to use the excuse that she couldn't help? And she just gives up and moves on, and all that is STILL your fault? Not her own? she needs to take responsibility too
A lot to think about. I guess I feel like I should have been 'better' at protecting her. But then maybe in the beginning I ws too good at it and this is the result?
I'm back to 'terrified' again. There's nobody she knows who wants our marriage to work and it hurts, makes me feel alone.
Ok...let's parse this one out.
What are you terrified of?
Losing her? What exactly is she giving you, other then conditional love? You don't want her as she is. She needs to step up to the plate. Maybe she will, maybe she won't.
Having your kids live in a broken home?
It seems like the kids will stay with you. Better than having them live with her and her "spiritual" friends. Better than having them raised by another man. Trust me Frank, there are many guys on these DB boards who would end their marriages if they could get the kids.
It seems like several things were missing in your lives. For one, you didn't have couples that were friends of the marriage. That is, they were both your friends and committed to knocking sense into either one of you if you strayed. Second, you seem to be missing friends you can see on a regular basis, Frank. You had your wife, your kids and HER friends.
Well...time to start building a community around you.
And...I think, Frank, you might consider AmyC's insights about the undercurrents of your wife's spirituality. I'm not talking about squishy energy fields, I'm talking about malevolent spiritual forces that encourage her to do one thing and one thing only: make herself the the only person she answers to. It seems enlightened, but it's deep and dark magic. When self-actualization and "growth" are disconnected from commitments to others and to Truth, then all things become acceptable. I don't think your wife is communing with God.
I remember when you were so desperate to save your marriage that you joined that old prayer group I put together here. Whether or not you ever prayed is irrelevant. You were desperate enough to try it.
I'd like to see you that desperate again. This time to save yourself, though.
By any means necessary...I'd like you to get THAT desperate again.
I'm really not being mean. I say that because I care. And because of what I know.
So don't think I won't be praying that rock bottom finds you flat on your back with no place else to look other than up.
And...I think, Frank, you might consider AmyC's insights about the undercurrents of your wife's spirituality. I'm not talking about squishy energy fields, I'm talking about malevolent spiritual forces that encourage her to do one thing and one thing only: make herself the the only person she answers to. It seems enlightened, but it's deep and dark magic. When self-actualization and "growth" are disconnected from commitments to others and to Truth, then all things become acceptable. I don't think your wife is communing with God.
Now there's one cross-post I don't think was coincidental!
Losing her? What exactly is she giving you, other then conditional love? You don't want her as she is. She needs to step up to the plate. Maybe she will, maybe she won't.
You guys just won't 'let' her be an 'abused' wife, will you? That's how she sees herself. That's how her friends see her.
That, and she has 'outgrown' being with Frank, the guy who used to be a fun person, but became down, angry, medicated with alcohol. Unreliable.
Why won't you? When would it be 'ok' for her to leave this marriage and get the support of the posters who are getting down on her? I'm asking only because I think I am 'getting it' and I want to know what the 'line' is.
Quote:
It seems like several things were missing in your lives. For one, you didn't have couples that were friends of the marriage. That is, they were both your friends and committed to knocking sense into either one of you if you strayed. Second, you seem to be missing friends you can see on a regular basis, Frank. You had your wife, your kids and HER friends.
Yes. that is absolutely true. That's all we had / have.
Quote:
Well...time to start building a community around you.
Yes, that used to be the way it always was - I surrounded myself with friends, that was my 'family'.
Quote:
And...I think, Frank, you might consider AmyC's insights about the undercurrents of your wife's spirituality. I'm not talking about squishy energy fields, I'm talking about malevolent spiritual forces that encourage her to do one thing and one thing only: make herself the the only person she answers to. It seems enlightened, but it's deep and dark magic. When self-actualization and "growth" are disconnected from commitments to others and to Truth, then all things become acceptable. I don't think your wife is communing with God.
This bothers me a lot. I agree with your observation, but if you were to meet her you'd think of her as being a pretty 'regular' person. VP of the Band boosters, hard working massage therapist with her 'spiritual' stuff being sort of a 'sideline'. She is pretty normal. It's the 'self seeking' that she does in the 'new age' realm that 'tells' her that it is 'ok' to 'move on' when staying is too painful.
I don't think she is 'communing' with God either. The lady at our 'church' (Dee) thinks the same thing, she thinks she is looking for something. Dee says 'leave her alone, this is her issue she has to resolve'.
I remember when you were so desperate to save your marriage that you joined that old prayer group I put together here. Whether or not you ever prayed is irrelevant. You were desperate enough to try it.
I'd like to see you that desperate again. This time to save yourself, though.
I'm there. I can't take any more 'hits' from anyone else. Losing contracts, getting angry e-mails from partners because I'm not doing stuff right now. I'm desperate.
My D17 asked me if I wanted to go for a drive tonite. We used to do that all the time during the LAST split. She would need me to talk about 'things' and reassure her that even though mom was 'crazy' we'd be ok. Deja Vue all over again except mom isn't 'crazy' and D17 doesn't know what mom is planning.
Anyway, I like it when we drive because we talk about all kinds of things and it's a nice connection. I was thinking a lot about the things Becca said about just 'being me' and letting God hep out. Just 'go with the flow'. I thought abut how I have been resisting this path towards divorce instead of letting it play out. Holding on to what was instead of accepting what is.
When we came home around 8pm W was in the bedroom. she had her phone near her, covered up and it seemed like she had just sat down, she seemed nervous. Like she was just 'texting' and changed her position, grabbed a book, whatever, to look like she had been reading.
That was my sense anyway. I trust my senses.
So I lay down on the bed with her. Started talking about various things, money, work, etc. She then asked me why I was talking to her after I hadn't all week. She asked me 'what has changed'?
I told her that I was processing a lot of emotions, many that go way back to years ago when I had the old company and lost my confidence. I said "I'm just taking care of myself right now" (Thanks Richie)
I smiled, made eye contact while talking.
She reached over and rubbed me on the back for a minute. I let her, and didn't read into it.
I suggested that we go watch tv and she said 'why do you want to do that? You haven't wanted to be around me or talk to me.' So I said 'I don't want to TALK to you, I just want company while I watch TV'. She thought that was funny and decided we would.
I got up to go and she seemed like she wasn't going to go with me unless I left first. I think she thought I was going to check her phone. She's pretty transparent. So I left first. I was going to tell her 'I am not going to look at your phone, I don't care what you're doing any more' but I thought that was a bad idea.
We watched Boston Legal and there was a lady who whacked her husband with a shovel and killed him because he was leaving her. She looked at me with a funny look and said "You better not do that to me!". I just said "why would I do that to you?".
Weird.
Anyway, we watched some shows, then went to bed. I couldn't sleep so I came downstairs to make these posts.
I'm having difficulty with the 'messaging'. I know I should put it out of my head because it isn't my issue, it's hers. But I also feel like calling his W and saying "Guess what, your H texts my W several times a day and it's flirting and might be an affair!".
What's the right thing to do? Seems like nothing right now. Why hurt his W when I really don't know the extent of the situation.
I also know it's the 'little boy' being angry and wanting to lash out. She has a lesson to learn here (and maybe he does also) and it's not MY lesson, it's theirs.
I don't understand ANY of her actions tonight. One of my friends suggested that she "wants me to be happy without her" which is probably true. Why wouldn't she? She cares and is leaving while also hoping I'll 'be ok'. Remember that she believes I won't be, and even if I were, I'd go back to 'broken' if we stayed together. And she just doesn't want to be 'a wife' any more.
Anyway, here is my current goal:
I will be 'me' around her. Not 'angry little boy', just me. I will not go beyond 'nice' and 'decent'. I like her but I don't respect her decisions. And I'm not at the place where I can forgive her for choosing to leave instead of fight for me. AmyC said that it's high time someone thought I was worth fighting FOR. Well, I think it is time also. I will 'go with the flow' instead of 'resisting it'. She doesn't want to be a wife an more, then so be it. She can live here until June. If she still needs to bail then, she can get out. I'm not playing around any more.
I'm not DBing at all. Just going to be me, with the focus on fixing what matters to me. Not her. She can (and will) live her life, act as if she is happy. She's going to go to a Salsa dance bar with one of her friends this week. She's gone before months ago, just for the fun of dancing and the friend asked her to take her. Most guys at these bars are too afraid to ask women to dance, and most women go there just to dance, not to pick up guys. Salsa is a weird thing.
I could 'worry' about it but how would that help me? The friend she's going with is the one who was on my side during the affair 2 years ago. Her boyfriend broke up with her several months ago and she's been pretty devastated. She's also in much better shape than my wife is.
I guess I'm putting this out there so I can tell myself that it doesn't matter, it's just an 'event' and is not part of my issues, it's part of hers.
I really am starting to think that she's totally shut down from me. She cares but her interest in being in a relationship with me is gone. I can understand the 'she made a commitment' thoughts but society has made it 'ok' to abandon those commitments if it gets to rough. I just don't see it going any other way. Maybe someone will tell me I'm wrong, but I don't see it.
So, I'm letting go and seeing what God will bring me next. Right now I need Strength and Focus so I can dig my way out of this financial hole. I can do it, with help.
Go with the flow. Stop resisting the inevitable. Trust that the outcome will be 'right' without knowing what it will be.
