Starting to get it.... my 3rd thread

[craig54]

annk, your husband is trying to control you with sex. he wants you to feel guilty about the ea. please for your sake, don't let him do that to you. you are giving your soul away every time you do it with him. don't have sex out of guilt. dont demean yourself. your husband needs help, he has major issues. i know you are trying to make up for the ea. but this is not the way.
i can remember my wife having sex with me and crying after, it made me feel extremely small. i want my wife to want me, if she doesnt then that is the way it is. you need to be loved , romanced, cared for . that is why you arent attracted to your husband.you are property to him . stand up for for your self. it is your body. if you want to share it with your husband , he needs to treat you like a beautiful woman and not a piece of meat.

[ann25]

WOW - that's all i can say... Thanks to everyone that posted and I'll try to get back to you all...

As far as the sex after the EA thing. It was only a one time thing. I do think he sees me as property because in his mind, what was once his was given to someone else (even if not physically). Now its like he's trying to mark his territory. That's what that night was about, that and i think a little part of him wanted to hurt me because he was hurting so badly. I don't think i've ever felt that hurt in my life. After that, it really didn't take me long to fogrive him. It was more a matter of doing it for myself because i couldn't hang onto it. If i did, that's all i would have thought about. I was worried he would try it again. I think that is part of the reason he does notice now when i'm not into it because he does know that he hurt me. He's never been violent towards me. A couple times, when things were really bad, right before d-bomb, he threw something at the wall a time or two, but he would never hit me or anything. Maybe i just don't want to see it, but we've been together 10 years and he's never been violent...

Thank you all for the support and ideas. Like i said, i'll get back to everyone as i have a chance. Thank you all!

[ann25]

Ok - I'm going in order here...

Hi dave, Thanks for the reply. I do my very best to be accountable for everything and anything I do. For the most part, I leave at 7:30, drop the girls at daycare, go to work, pick the girls up, go home and we spend every evening together. I'f we aren't together for the evening, he's out or I'm at a church thing. I don't have a lot of friends, but the few I have are awesome. We all go to the same church and so sometimes they'll come over, but I really don't go out. I call him 4 times a day from work and don't use the computer at all at home unless he asks me to check something and he's right there.

I know that i need to be patient, I do struggle with that, but I am trying. i know that it may take a long time for him to forgive me, i just wish he'd realize that he'd feel better if he did. If he wasn't holding all that hatred in.

Thanks!! ann

[ann25]

Hey Heim, thanks for checking in and thanks for the compliments (a girl can never hear those too often! )... I agree, i have to keep standing up for myself. When he's feeling really down, i get in the habit of letting things slide and I need to make sure that I keep doing it. I was in a really bad place a year ago, i wouldn't stand up, no matter what. If i told him how i felt, it was during a fight through a stream of tears, so it never got through to him i guess... I won't ever let it get back to that point.

thanks again - ann

[ann25]

Hi Dom,

I'm pretty sure I'm right about the "MINE" thing. For some reason, I've been remembering things and thinking about things the last few days and I think i've made some revelations that i didn't even realize before (why i'm feeling this way, why he's doing stuff) Anyways. He was never like this before, so i know it has something to do with this at minimum.

I put up with it a lot. He's not getting the reaction he likes because I don't like him doing it and in my mind, like with a puppy, i can't reward bad behavior.

I am constantly telling him that I'l all his, that noone will ever get in the way of that again. that i don't want anyone but him. Verbally, i can't do much more. Physically, i'm doing about as much as i can handle.

Actually, last night i was in the kitchen and he came in and rubbed his hand on my back. He said... oops, sorry i touched you. so i said that the touching doesn't bother me, its the way he does it. So i proceeded to show him exactly how it feels. He actually said ouch... I just wanted to laugh. I told him that i don't mind it when he's sweet about it, it's just when it doesn't feel like he's trying to be loving most times. That was it, the rest of the night went ok.

I think my problem is when he grabs me, it's more like get off then gimme a kiss. That will mentally be a big 180 for me... I'll give it a try.

Yeah... i need to drop the counselor thing. It was during the whole talk the other night and i was just on a roll... He obviously is still not willing, so I'll drop it. I will be seeing one for myself though!

Thanks Dom. As always, i appreciate your insight.

[ann25]

Hi fb2 - I do think that part of the lack of attraction comes from his insecurities, but part also comes from a lack of emotion, a lack of those in love feelings that once caused my attraction in the first place.

I think i have answered most of these before, but i think that was a couple threads ago, so no worries!

Why did H file the D? I told him ILYBNILWY. Over the course of a few days, we talked and he decided that if i couldn't give him a 100% guarantee that we would make it and be ok and be happy again, that it wasn't worth him trying. I told him i couldn't. I was scared and hurt and that I would give everything I had to working on it, but I couldn't give him any promises. That wasn't acceptable to him and he said that unless i could say with 100% certainty, that he wanted a divorce and it wasn't worth it for him. Hind sight being what it is, I would have said yes, i absolutely promise to avoid that, but i couldn't at the time.
What was he feeling insecure about before then? Is there something besides the EA that also contributes to his insecurity now?
Not sure. It started about a year (give or take) before the ILYBNILWY talk. It started slowly. Where were you? What are you doing. that gradually turned into him thinking i was having sex on my lunch breaks and stuff. To him thinking that i was actively looking for someone to replace him and that as soon as i found that person, i would just up and leave him. To this day i'm not sure what caused it, he won't talk about it. At first i did everything in the world to reassure him and then i just got to the point where i was angry. how dare he accuse me of those things when he had no reason whatsoever to think that. here were a few times i ever thought "geez, i might as well be, at least then i'd be getting sex and the yelling and name calling would be worth it", but those were thoughts in anger and not something i actually believed.
What attracted you to H in the first place?
Hi personality. We were good friends. We both played all sports. We both like video games, love music (although it took me a while to get over his country music hating... hehe) and likeaction movies. I've always been one of the guys, but he was the first guy friend i had that treated me like a lady at times as well. I fell in love with him my junior year in HS and it took at least taht long for me to really want him physically. Still, we waited another 2 years before having a physical relationship.

Thanks.... ann

[ann25]

Hi Sandi, When i read your post, i cried... I specifically do not say rape because i don't think that i can handle the thought of that. It's one of those things that i've forgiven, but will never forget, so it's still there. When it gets talked about, it still hurts. I can understand why and how hurt he was, but just like i don't think an A is ever justified, neither is what he did to me.

Rape between H and W... tricky spot huh... Had he not been my H and done that I would have fought tooth and nail and screamed and argued, but because he is my H and I could see that he needed it, i let him. I didn't argue, i didn't say no. He said "I'm going to have sex with you now." I said that i didn't know, but if that's what he thought he needed, ok. This may be TMI, but i was hands and knees and he got behind me and just did whatever. I'm quite sure he couldn't have looked at me in the face and done that.

Ann, I don't know why you keep trying to hang in there and be treated like that.....you are worth too much for this. He is destroying your self-respect and any esteem you might have.

Sometimes, i don't know why i keep trying. oddly enough, it's not even because of how he treats me, but because of his lack to make any personal changes. It's one of those things where i know for a fact (i didn't think so a year ago) that i deserve better than this, but I'm hoping and praying that he can be the one to give it to me. I'm going to have 3 little girls this summer, they need their daddy, they need the whole family.

I think one of the hardest things in me dealing with his insecurities is that i don't throw anything back in his face. Not how he treated me before, not the telling me he wanted a D, not the sex... nothing. I just can't do that. What's been done is done. Doesn't mean it doesn't need to get fixed, but that there is no changin it now, so what's the point in arguing it to death. do i worry that he'll go back to how he was, yes. Do i worry that one day, he'll get tired of waiting for me to fall back in love with him and give me another ultimatum... yes. I just know that those are my issues and today, i'm living for today. Not what might happen years or months from now, but what can i do today to make tomorrow better.

I will say one thing though. If that ever happens again, i will walk. No questions asked. He will need to seriously face some issues before we get past a second round of that.

Thank you sandi!

[Dom R]

Hi Dom,

I'm pretty sure I'm right about the "MINE" thing. For some reason, I've been remembering things and thinking about things the last few days and I think i've made some revelations that i didn't even realize before (why i'm feeling this way, why he's doing stuff) Anyways. He was never like this before, so i know it has something to do with this at minimum.



Actually, last night i was in the kitchen and he came in and rubbed his hand on my back. He said... oops, sorry i touched you. so i said that the touching doesn't bother me, its the way he does it. So i proceeded to show him exactly how it feels. He actually said ouch... I just wanted to laugh. I told him that i don't mind it when he's sweet about it, it's just when it doesn't feel like he's trying to be loving most times. That was it, the rest of the night went ok.

I'm glad that you recognize (to some degree) his behaviour for what it is. I'm also glad that you recognize that, unlike some people's panic'd kneejerk reactions, he's not out to dominate and enslave you.


I was really creeped out by reading the "rape/abuse witchhunt" yesterday. Seems like as soon as someone raises the "rape!" or "abuse!" flag, then suddenly, everyone thinks that they Must Protect the Woman, from the Evil Abuser Husband! And the man instantly gets demonized, whether applicable, or not.

I dont think it was applicable in this case.


would you please post explicitly, whether you view what happened, as rape in your mind?
As I view it, it was not, and you dont view it as such either.
Extremely nasty and painful, yes. but not rape, becuase you consented, and continued to give your consent throughout.

When you said "you werent in a position to say no", I took it as, "you recognized the terrible emotional hurt your husband was going through, and you chose to sacrifice some physical pain, in exchange for his emotional hurt".
Not that you truely "couldnt" say no.

I salute you for recognizing that, and choosing to make that sacrifice then, in an attempt to help your husband through that difficult night. Not many people are willing to undergo physical pain to help their spouse.

I think that most people who replied on your thread, are probably either from the sex-starved marriage area, or new, or just dont get it.
They dont get that your husband's reaction, is common, in circumstances where the trust and intimacy in a relationship has been tramatically shattered.
There's even a clinical name for it; "hysterical bonding". A google search on that may be enlightening to folks.

Men view sex as bonding. He wasnt trying to "hurt you" (and it's sad that you seem to have absorbed a bit of the witchhunt atmosphere by thinking now he may have been trying to).

he wasnt.
he was trying to "reclaim the bond between you".
It's simpler to put it in terms of getting back to a relationship of "you are 'mine' and i am 'yours'".
Unfortunately, people are getting all bent out of shape over the "mine" thing.

Now, I do agree that he's taking the tattoo thing too far. But I think you would agree that to him, it's not about treating you as properly. it's about reassurance to him.
eg: "wedding rings didnt work to keep you emotionally faithful to him.... maybe a tattoo of his name will?"

(but, you dont need to go there )

I put up with it a lot. He's not getting the reaction he likes because I don't like him doing it and in my mind, like with a puppy, i can't reward bad behavior.

i think that's perfectly true.
However, giving all-negative feedback, doesnt work well with people. With humans, you also have the ability to tell them, "do this instead".
It sounds like you took my advice on that already, and it's working well for you. I'm glad

It sounds like you are doing well, and learning to navigate his insecurities even better.
There are books on recovering trust after infidelity. Even though you didnt have a physical affair, those books could help you through what to expect in his recovery process, and ways for you to help him through it.
The thing that hurts from a physical affair, isnt the physical stuff itself. It's the emotional implications of the physical stuff.

Your husband has been hit with all the emotional trauma, without you having done the physical stuff. That means, he isnt going to be afraid/traumatised of having sex with you.... However, he is still traumatized as far as every other aspect of your relationship. Sex with you may be the only thing he can feel completely positive about, (or at least close to it). So that's probably why he's so up for that now

if I recall correctly, the assorted infidelity resources say that he may be be like this, slowly tapering off, for somewhere between 6 months to a year from initial shock, if you are patient and understanding with him.

Thanks Dom. As always, i appreciate your insight.

[ann25]

Altas,

Thanks for the support, advice, hugs and compliments(all worth more than gold).

I do think that at some point it is something we need to talk about it. I did tell him the other night that i feel like he treats me like property and that hurts. He should show love, not ownership. He's really not violent and I honestly believe this was a one time thing. he knows that if he ever hit me or anything that i'd be gone, that and I'd hit him back...

I really struggle with how much reassurance to give vs. how much distance to ask for. It's like catch 22. He probably can't get past this and start treating me right until he feels like i'm all his and i can't fall back in love with him and give him that until he starts treating me nicer.

I don't really have any men in my life that i'm close to other than H. Expecially none that i'd feel comfortable sharing this with. I'm pretty close with my FIL, but there is no way he could be open minded about it and let me do the talking, he'd probably want to kick ass, even his own sons.... (he's always very protective of me, more of a dad than my own)

When we do talk about this, it will probably be in front of a counselor of something (eventually). I don't think he'll get mad, but more defensive about how bad he was hurting.

Thank you.

[ann25]

SBD - Thank you for your response... I think that you are right that i need to so something different. I think that what i've been doing to this point that been driving me crazy.

1. i know i shouldn't have any expectations. It's really hard for me and I'm trying. that's why i think what you are giving your W is so amazing. I wish i could look at him everyday and say, when you are ready, come back to me, but i have a really hard time with it. I'm trying though.

2. I could try that. I think i'm just really confused in my SL. I like sex. I have always enjoyed it. I don't want H. Not 100% sure why. I wish i did, so i could fix it. I'm afraid that a comment like that will do more damage than good, but i'm probably wrong. i do like the idea of it, but I think i'll have to work up to saying it. I'll try.

You're an incredibly strong woman to have made it through all of this - keep up the great conviction, but PLEASE consider that what you're doing is still focused a LOT on changing him.

Thank you and I know. I have made a lot of changes in how i communicate with H. I've been reassuring him and giving him sex and i'm about 50/50 in responding to his advances. I've made changes. Everything I do is in an effort for him to be able to trust me and see that things are different. Now i just sit and wait while he treats me how he wants and does nothing to change? I just struggle with it. I just don't seem me being able to make the changes i need (falling back in love and being attracted to him) without him first making some. I know that i need to have no expectations and focus on what i can change (ME)though. Thank you...

ann