Hairdog, I don't know what this says about me but I find you are at your wisest during your cynical cycles. I do not mean to measure success as "3 times a week". This is not the success I speak of. I speak of the success of reasonable contentment and survival of the relationship.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I can only speak for myself, but my (albeit limited) time on this forum has been the opposite of a waste. Granted, my marriage wasn't a long-term disaster to begin with. But I found so many tools here. I'm 90% sure this is where I was introduced to Passionate Marriage, which has changed my whole life in ways that had nothing to do with my sex life (although that has *really* improved too. Out of all recognition.) The concept of differing love languages (Five Love Languages) was what finally broke through to my husband re: my craving for touch. Just reading posts from such an intelligent, articulate, diverse, humorous, kind group of people who aren't afraid to wield 2x4s has been a revelation. Mojo's zoo has provided a model for me that I've been using a lot in my life of late, even today when I brought out the lioness when the situation warranted it. I am SO glad I found this place and let me take this opportunity to say a very heartfelt thanks to all.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Oh... I'd say probably five years before I split with my H, and my shrink pretty much knew things were a done deal... and being pro marrage and all... he was not one to give up on me. For in his estimate, marriage is not about love, but the ability two people have to solve their problems.
In my darkest hours... he would say to me... 'hang on. hang on as long as you can."
And I'd say... "why?"
And he'd say, 'because at some point, you are going to know, and you will quit asking me what you should do.'
That is acceptance.
The day I went to see him, to tell him of my divorce, the man looked like he had personally failed me. I wondered out loud about it.
"I was hoping two intelligent people would get past their stubbornness and see a way clear."
"Me too. But. I hung on as long as I could."
Nod. "Okay... let's get you healed..."
And that was that. To me... is was both a success and a failure, at the same time. My beloved Harmonic Oscillator philosophy, applied to life.
So I ask the philosophical question: Are the successes because of what we learn here and the failures in spite of it or is it all just a random crap shoot and our time here could be better spent painting the house or on some other tangible if mundane triumph?
Depends. Tangible triumphs are helpful, but they seem more an effect than a cause of getting a better mindset (or perhaps better medications). I tried the "tangible triumphs" route and got nowhere. What I needed was "tangible progress" every single day, day after day, for the rest of my life, and throwing myself into a quest for a "tangible triumph" got me nothing but half-finished projects and further disgust with myself.
Originally Posted By: Baltoman
Lil, I get what you are saying and personal growth is all well and good but sometimes it seems like this board is better at preparing us for our next relationship than at trying to salvage the current one. A good thing if it comes to that but not really the primary reason we all started dropping by.
It's a lot better than watching your next relationship go straight to hell, and maybe the one after that.
If you learn a better way in the middle of your Project From Hell, it still might not succeed, but if you don't learn a better way in the middle of your Project From Hell, it almost certainly won't succeed and it'll be followed by an endless succession of Projects From Hell until you do learn better.
You no longer have the option of doing this one right from the beginning. And maybe it's too late, and maybe you never should have started that project in the first place. But there are always ways to make things better.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
You ask a great -- and difficult -- question. My own take on it has long been that the techniques and concepts espoused here, from SSM to Schnarch and some of the others, will ONLY work if BOTH spouses are fully committed to trying to save the relationship. And even then, it's going to take a HELLUVA lotta work, and the improvements may be only gradual, and -- worse -- will probably be short-lived.
If both partners are NOT willing to work at it, then I think these concepts will help one become a better, more confident, and less enmeshed person, but I don't think it will save your marriage, nor will it improve your sex life.
The sex won't be better, but you'll become better able to DEAL with it.
That's just my opinion, based on reading and posting here for a few years myself.
If both partners are NOT willing to work at it, then I think these concepts will help one become a better, more confident, and less enmeshed person, but I don't think it will save your marriage, nor will it improve your sex life.
The sex won't be better, but you'll become better able to DEAL with it.
That is about the same as my opinion.
One/two years ago, a poster on another group here asked about the same thing. The vote was the DB site was well worth trying, helped the individual poster grow/learn a few things not to do/learned a few things to do better, and in general thought the site did worlds of good not to change partners only to have the same issues in the next R.
Something like my thoughts, If the current R has problems, learn as much about making the current R better, you paid for it, worked for it, so why not use it as a test bed for the future better you. Who knows, your next partner might be the one you live with now.
The main thought was you are part of the R problem, even if you do too much for your SO, so change your habits now, fix you and maybe some good will come your way.
Well I was going to post this on Mojo's thread but it's locked already. That's Karma for the incredible non-locking thread she had before!
Re Burg and the crazy single chicks theory:
Yes - all single people are crazy. Married people are crazy too. We're all crazy, it is only by living and mingling with others that we can temper our craziness a little. SO's, kids, friends etc give us weird looks when we start to become too crazy so we tone it down a bit. So, de facto, single people with no kids and few friends are crazier than married people with kids and lots of friends. We all know this is true.
Sometimes a whole family conspire together to be equally crazy (you only have to look at the Osbournes!) What's great about this board and why we are NOT wasting our time being here is that it is great alternative source of OTHER MINDS to tell us when we're being crazy.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Hello from maine!I have been reading these posts, and just read the book sex starved marriage, Hope this would be where i can also ask a question. I met my special man 14 years ago we were together a year and a half and went our seperate ways after we had a daughter, 6 years later i married and had two more children and lo and behold.... 3 years ago he came back telling me all the things i wanted to hear for sooo long, I divorced my husband to be with him when we reunited thought the sparks would catch the house on fire!! Now He masterbates on the couch where he thinks i cannot see him every morning and sometimes when he gets up in the middle of the night. THis is every day, I am right there in bed...Always sexually stimulated i am 33 and never said no, OK so he prefers to masterbate can i save this relighionship?
Do not follow me i may not lead, Do not lead me i may not follow, Walk with me and be my friend. Freezing in maine
