Karen, I agree with Theo about your H calling/emailing OW in front of you. And one more thing to point out to your H you are not the only in the house. You mentioned a daughter (how old is she)? If he can't be a gentleman enough to show courtesy or respect to you, what about her?
Like Theo said, it is war. Keep standing up for yourself. If you don't, it sounds like he's going to walk all over you. He's going to get away with as much as you let him.
Sometimes I'd like to get some of these WASs and line them up in front of someone like Judge Judy -- someone who would rip them a new a-hole. Some of them have balls the size of the moon.
It sounds like you had a wonderful IC session. Keep going!
Firstly let me address your "great day". You found someone who didn't degrade you, and actually listened and empathised. I think a key part of surviving and winning this brutal journey, is to have a support network of friends, family or therapists (or a combination of all three). You are not looking to create a club of "Spouse-Haters" who listen to all the gory details, nod in agreement, and give you a sympathetic hug. This is especially dangerous with common friends or family, as this will create a lot of awkwardness if the promised land of a fixed marriage arrives. You are looking for people who will restore your self-worth, make you realise you are a good human being (despite what the WAS so bitterly and venomously says), and therefore allow you to start living. Stick with the therapist, and find others. My biggest support has been through my younger sister. In fact, a silver lining from this nightmare has been how we've reconnected and become so close (I look at our bonding, and keep telling myself "you see good things will come out of this!").
What to do about the emailing? Well my BIL (who's my other big support) likes to use military and sporting analogies, and he'd ask "what's the strategic aim?" and "what's the expected outcome of your actions?" Your aim appears to be fixing your marriage. Will confronting him on the emailing help this aim? I don't think so. It will make him feel suffocated, push him closer to OW, and create tension and conflict. Your husband is not the normal, logical and sane man that you married. That man would not have had the affair, or be rude enough to email in front of you. I'd suggest you show your strength by ignoring the emailing. You can make him uncomfortable by getting on with life around him.
This is really a question of "are you being a doormat and letting him stomp all over you" or "are you rising above the petty things and looking at the bigger picture'.
I believe this is what DBing and GALling is really all about. Ignore the WAS by detaching, and focus on becoming stronger and reclaiming your life.
I'm no expert, and am fumbling and stumbling through life, but I think the people who are most successful at fixing their marriages, are those that appear to truly detach and keep the bigger picture in focus.
Please stay strong and happy, and we'd love to hear more about your budding acting career.
The issue of the emails can be overlooked if, and only if, you are able to overlook them. Maybe you can, maybe you can't.
From a strategic view, it's not the most important battle to fight.
However, your husband's behavior may be so toxic to you that seeing him email her may send you into an emotional tail-spin for several hours. And that's several hours of your life being angry or upset, which doesn't help your divorce-busting efforts.
Being needy, angry, clingy, chasing, etc. certainly will push him away. Trying to end the relationship now will certainly push him towards her.
But asking him not to carry on the affair in front of you, out of consideration, is not asking to end the affair. It's not chasing him. It's laying down a boundary that may be necessary for your mental health.
It's theoretically possible to ignore the emailing. Maybe you can't. It's up to you. I'm more concerned with your mental health.
Remember, showing some strength, by setting a boundary, combined with "Getting a Life" may prove attractive. People, in general, aren't attracted to people who allow others to violate their boundaries.
If you are not asking him to end the emails in front of you because you are afraid of upsetting him, then he's already won. He has YOU walking on eggshells in your own home while he carries on an affair.
I think you should ask him one more time, in the language I suggested. If he doesn't then decide if you can ignore and detach enough to overlook it.
Treat him like he's an alcoholic. There's a fine line between being patient and enabling destructive behavior.
Good points from all! I agree with you Theoden. I will give it one more shot, as you suggested. We may be living together, probably for several months while we work on this old house so if he is going to be doing that for months, it is probably worth it to make one more attempt. If he continues to do so then he is admitting he is not a decent person (by your language), which I can't even imagine myself. If he still keeps up the emailing after that, I will just leave the room, ignore it and act like it doesn't bother me, which also may be kind of the point, I think he probably does have some kind of agenda about that, to irritate or anger me, make me hate him, and if he doesn't get the reaction maybe he will do it less as well? He has said he is doing it so that I won't have any hope in the relationship. I've told him to leave that kind of therapy or whatever you would call that to my actual therapist!.
I have a Dr. appt. on Monday to get AD's. I am hoping the Dr. will give me one that doesn't make me too zombieish with driving and the kids and all, hoping to do the play in 2 weeks; I don't want to be too out of it or sleepy. Just kind of happier and able to deal with the marriage problems and my brother's brain tumor. If a medication like that exists anyway...
New stuff to report: My H has a habit when he leaves, usually my D8 and I are sitting together and he always kisses her on the head and says I love you J and nothing at all to me. When he left the other night I said to her, I wonder if he'll ever love me again out loud, which I prob. shouldn't have, but that has been a painful routine the past 2 months, and she said, If Dad were a nice guy, he probably would, but he's not." And my thoughts were, Wow, that's weird and sad that an 8 year old would think her Dad is not nice, and also that I'm afraid that's she might be perceptive and right about that, too which bummed me out even more.
My H's new tactic I've noticed is to avoid me at all costs in our house when he is actually home and not with the OW. Wherever I am he will take great pains to be in another room or working outside, or whatever. If I come into a room where he is (I've stopped following him recently per DB advice) he'll leave the room as fast as possible. You know, I'm fairly decent looking now that I've lost 25 pounds this past 2 months of marriage stress, I'm wearing cuter clothes, a little makeup, funny, avoiding relationship talk, we actually laugh quite a bit together lately. Why do you think he is avoiding me like the plague???
Other than not following him around which I have stopped doing is there any advice I should be doing re: this? Will he do this forever or is there anything I should be doing re: this? It's really been bothering me of course. As usual, thanks for any and all advice!!! Karen
Pretty quiet lately...H is avoiding me still. I saw my dr. and she started me on 20 mg. of Prozac which I have been taking. I just got my copy of Divorce Remedy in the mail so just started reading that. They've asked me to start teaching preschool Sunday school at church again b/c they've had a recent big surge in kids (they asked my H to coteach with me and he said no!). I think that would be good as keeping me busy, but a little worried about me keeping it together if I get bad news about my brother's brain tumor after his surgery next week. I thought I'd talk to my therapist about it Wed. and see what she thinks about it.
Why do you think he is avoiding me like the plague???
He's avoiding you because you remind him of the guilt. What he is doing in morally reprehensible - something that every society on the globe rejects as immoral. Seeing you reminds him of how wrong he is.
Originally Posted By: karen43
Other than not following him around which I have stopped doing is there any advice I should be doing re: this? Will he do this forever or is there anything I should be doing re: this? It's really been bothering me of course.
This is something that is outside of your control. If you can't control it, don't think about it (see #7 on my New Year's Eve post above). It's difficult, I know. But the more it "gets to you," the less attractive you are. Just silently smile to yourself, and carry on with your day. Let him respond.
Teaching is a good GAL. Perfect, in fact. And don't worry about having a difficult time at this point in your life. The grace of the Holy Spirit will give you strength. Trust God to get you through. Say a prayer. Ask for help.
Thanks, Ohio_Mark! I am going to start teaching Sunday School this weekend. I've been praying every day/night so if there is power in prayer, things should be going well soon! I've printed your rules and Theoden's advice and read them as often as possible, and now reading Divorce Remedy (only on page 75 of that though because I've been busy trying to GAL)!
I saw my therapist today and she was nice to see. Always positive about me, thinks my H is a "jerk" and mean from things I've told her. But I told her before the affair he wasn't. Well that's not entirely true, but he was nice before this past year or so, for about 20 years anyway. I think maybe job stress or MLC has changed him...If we do reconcile, I would want to do marriage counseling. He started individual therapy today for his anger issues so even he realizes some of his recent problems.
I spoke briefly to H last night. I was in an upbeat mood about my day and was in such a great mood although talking with him always makes me a bit depressed of course with his I've moved on and last night it was "We are no longer involved". I try to detach, but it is very hard, b/c let's face it, I am an overly sensitive person!!! I asked him about seeing his therapist and out of (great) curiousity asked him what the therapist thought about his relationship with the OW since she was married with kids. He said the therapist thought it was great. I think that is really weird. I realized either he is snowing the therapist or the therapist is weird. H has a history of liking (when we went to therapists in past) to manipulate them which I think is strange since I believe seeing them is to get help for yourself, but he likes to manipulate them (he has laughed afterwards about doing so). If this therapist ever realizes he is doing so, he will probably just stop seeing him. So I do not hold out much hope that he will get help for his anger and relationship issues(including ours) at this point. Sad I guess.
I spoke briefly to H last night. I was in an upbeat mood about my day and was in such a great mood although talking with him always makes me a bit depressed of course with his I've moved on and last night it was "We are no longer involved". I try to detach, but it is very hard, b/c let's face it, I am an overly sensitive person!!! I asked him about seeing his therapist and out of (great) curiousity asked him what the therapist thought about his relationship with the OW since she was married with kids. He said the therapist thought it was great. I think that is really weird. I realized either he is snowing the therapist or the therapist is weird. H has a history of liking (when we went to therapists in past) to manipulate them which I think is strange since I believe seeing them is to get help for yourself, but he likes to manipulate them (he has laughed afterwards about doing so). If this therapist ever realizes he is doing so, he will probably just stop seeing him. So I do not hold out much hope that he will get help for his anger and relationship issues(including ours) at this point. Sad I guess.
