Frank, the fact you went so far as to create a hypothetical "post" that could have been written by your wife if she were here instead of you is very disturbing to me no matter how much of it came from things she has said previously.
I will not abandon you but I think you need to snap it the hell together or seek professional counseling immediately.
I say that as your friend.
Amy
I guess I just felt that people were being too hard on her and not hard enough on me. I don't want to be given any kind of pass because I'm 'frank_d'.
Frank, I think that the majority of the people that are helping you through this know that she isn't a bad person. However we are clling it like we see it. No one is giving you a pass because you are Frank D, but she isn't going to get a pass because you have been the way you have been either. The fact is that you have been screwed over. No matter which way you look at it, that is the way it is. Again, get pissed about it, use your anger constructivly, and accept it. What have you, in the past, told me when it appeared that I would make excuses for XW? Now stop making excuses for her and start rebuilding Frank D. This is no longer about her nor you and her, this is about you. Your right, you will be OK. And some of us will follow you through hell and back to make sure if it.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
I guess I just felt that people were being too hard on her and not hard enough on me. I don't want to be given any kind of pass because I'm 'frank_d'.
I'll be ok.
Frank, I came to these boards post you becoming an 'icon' so I am not giving you any kind of 'pass'. You are just another poster on these boards to me.
I have commented on your situation per your posts on this thread. I don't know your W , (obviously), but she seems like a 'runner' rather than a 'doer' when it comes to you.
Regardless of whether she is a saint or a sinner she is messing with your head. You must STOP focusing on her and get your own house in order. You need to get past the anger from her A. Seems like you still carry it around. Boy oh boy can most of us relate to that. It's what brought me to the boards - my H's A had been finished nearly a year by the time I came here but the aftermath was about to kill my M. My head was my biggest enemy. (It still is and always will be I think. I THINK too much).
When are you going to stop going on and on about your W and start work on Frank. You are not a hero at the nmoment you are a mess. Sounds like you have hidden that for so long and the adulation you have received from other sources has been enough to keep you going until now but it no longer is. You are human. Recognise your foibles and start getting help for dealing with them.
We all know our S's will run for support to people who only hear their half of the story and who will validate their decisions. That is exactly why you have to ignore your W and what she says others advise her to do.
Frank, prove to yourself and your children what you can do and how strong you are. Stop harping on about those pictures on the wall - that's all they are, pictures. If your W can't look at them then good - it's probably due to guilt - let her experience that.
This pity party has got to stop.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Tonite she asked me if I could help her get a cd onto her MP3 player in her cell phone. I said 'sure' and took it to my office.
While I was ripping the CD around 9:40 tonite, a text message came in from a guy who was one of the parents who went on the trip to Rome with her. It was gibberish, like 'Uujk'. I thought that was weird. I looked at the 'sent messages' history and saw about 10 messages she had sent to him in reply to messages he had sent (but were deleted).
A couple were things like "Thinking of you" and "sending love". Most were benign. Nothing like "I love you" or "I miss you" or other things like that.
I knew this guy and I know he's married. He was one of the 3 chapperones in her group of 23 kids so they spent the whole time together.
Well, it pushed my "Do not mess with a married guy" button and I confronted her about it. I said "Isn't XXX married?" and she said "Yes" and I said well, he just sent you a text message and I noticed it, I also saw you sent him some also with things like (the ones I mentioned) and I don't care what else you do, but do not screw with another family's stability by carrying on with a married man. I've seen too many stories of a wife being hurt when she finds this on her husbands phone."
She paused for a moment and said "XXX loves his wife and they are very happy people. We got to be really good friends. I didn't do anything inappropriate". She said "He sends me these weird messages and a lot of times I have no idea what he's talking about".
The look on her face wasn't one of "I got caught" but more like "puzzled that I thought she did something wrong" although when I mentioned the 'sending love' and 'smoochy icon' in one message she had a look of 'maybe' that wasn't appropriate or could be misunderstood.
I said "well I just want to make sure someone isn't being set up to be hurt. Does his wife know he texts you?" and she said "Well, I guess he would have to tell her if he thought she'd be concerned.
She said "There's nothing going on, he loves his wife and talked about her all the time in Rome. They're very happy. We're getting together this week - with his wife - to put together a video of the photos everyone took on the trip."
It all seems weird to me, but I know that messages like 'sending love' are things she'd send to any of her massage friends - guys or women. Still, the 'thinking of you' message is questionable.
What else could I say? I see so many people getting their marriages messed with and the wife finds out the hard way. And like I said, most of the messages were benign.
I had to believe her, but I got the sense that she's reaching out to get attention. Other than a 30 minute call to him today which I can believe was to talk about the 'video' they are collaborating on, there aren't any other calls more than a couple minutes which would be consistent with her story of coordinating with him and his wife perhaps to set up the photo editing session.
She said she knows there's a little 'flirting' going on and it's childish. I compared it to some of what goes on on the DB board, harmless as long as nobody sees it out of context. She said she realized it's silly she shouldn't do it but it's all in fun.
She got a little angry when I asked her "Are you sure there's nothing going on?" and she said I am SURE there is nothing going on. She also said she'd be more careful what she says in messages, but it's really 'none of my business'.
Said they are really nice people and his wife is really lucky to have him because he is such a all around nice man.
Anyway, maybe I made a mistake, maybe not. But I wasn't going to let her get into an affair with a married man if that was the case.
After the 'message' discussion we sat for a little while and talked about her friend Jon and how things were going for him. All good stuff, he's happy in his relationship, etc. But he's not going to drop what he's doing and go teach with her I guess.
We talked about our kids and how they were growing up and would be leaving us eventually. She talked about how lonely it's getting and that Sundays are the quietest because she doesn't work then and they are busy with there own lives. She is thinking about studying to get a national accreditation for massage so she can give credit when she teaches. She thinks that since she's alone on Sundays that would be a good time to study.
I validated that part of her plan, telling her she would be able to do it easily. I was going to say 'We could spend time together on Sundays' but I figured it was a bad idea.
We actually made eye contact often, which was an effort because I was sitting next to her so she had to turn her head.
I mentioned that I 'got fired' from that project and she was concerned, asked me if I was 'ok with that'. I told her that I was, because my heart wasn't in it anyway. Other than feeling a little bad for not getting it done, it's kind of a relief to be done with it.
She showed me a certificate she got from the Rotary Club this morning for her presentation. I told her I was impressed and that I missed giving presentations, I used to do them all the time 'way back when'.
I mentioned that I have decided to put together an 'Adult Ed' course on something to do with the Internet. I realize that is one of the 'do this for Frank' things I need to do.
She reminded me that I have a bunch of certificates and awards that I had gotten when I was the 'guru' of my company, before I sold it and crashed. She said I should put them on the wall so I can be proud of my accomplishments.
I thought about that for a moment and said "You're right, I've been ashamed of what went WRONG then, instead of being proud of what went right."
So, tonight I took down most of the pictures if she and I and put up the various framed awards and plaques I had been given for all the support I gave the community when I started my company from 1995-1998. I only had room for 8 of them but they are all nice.
She came down later after she went to bed because I had gone upstairs for something and she said 'did you want to talk about something? You keep coming upstairs' (it was one time).
Then she noticed the awards on the wall and said "I don't remember there being so many of them, they look nice".
I said that it felt good to remember them again.
Anyway, she seemed like she was feeling like something was bothering her and that was when I asked her one last time to be sure she isn't mistakenly getting involved with the guy, and be careful with the messages. She said she would, it was silly and not important to her.
So, we actually talked a little. She's still comfortable with her decision, and sees how this messaging 'friendship' could be misunderstood so hopefully she's going to back off a bit.
I don't know what's really going on with her, but I didn't accuse or attack her, I just told her to be careful because out of context, a message can take on a negative life of its own.
So, I put up some of my awards. That was my first 'for frank' move.
Frank, the fact you went so far as to create a hypothetical "post" that could have been written by your wife if she were here instead of you is very disturbing to me no matter how much of it came from things she has said previously.
I will not abandon you but I think you need to snap it the hell together or seek professional counseling immediately.
I say that as your friend.
Amy
I guess I just felt that people were being too hard on her and not hard enough on me. I don't want to be given any kind of pass because I'm 'frank_d'.
I'll be ok.
Not if you don't get yourself some help, you won't.
Do you even know that working on yourself is not the same as giving up?
Do you believe none of the stuff you have told other people?
And if you do believe it, tell me why are you so special that none of it applies to you???
I couldn't sleep last night. The 'texting' was not sitting well with me because no matter how I rationalized it, she was flirting with a married man who 'loved his wife'.
she got up at 5:30 and I was awake. She took her phone into the bathroom downstairs. When she came out I asked her why she was taking her phone with her to the bathroom? She said it's her music player, etc, etc, and I said "You know I really am having a hard time believing that, you're checking to see if he sent you any messages". She says "I didn't send any messages, you can check" so I took her phone and she said "No, on second thought it's none of our business" and tried to take the phone away.
I looked and there was a reply to the one from last night that was just echoing the same text, which she told me last night was part of her license plate number and was supposed to be some kind of 'joke' between them.
But there was a previous message that said something like "I'm thinking if you" and I showed her that and said "This is not something innocent, this is the start or an affair". She said "no it isn't, nothing is going on".
Please, I've been on the boards long enough to see through this crap.
I told her "You know, this is the time when we should be working together to solve our financial and relationship problems but instead you go away on two different trips and hit on two different guys, and this one is married and has a family"
She is angry and says "I tried to make our relationship work, and I've seen that there are other people out there who are in happy relationships. It's out there and you should be happy that both of us will grow from this and be happy on our own. I'm ready to let you go and you should let me go too". Very serious and calm.
I said "WE didn't make our relationship work because either I'm rescuing you or I need you to help me break out of my pain. Here we are, both of us in a place where we can actually work together and you give up and chase married men. Don't F*ck up someone else's family too"
She just stood there glaring at me and told me that there is nothing left between us and we're moving on.
I just said "I'm done with this" and walked away.
She's gone for a walk now. I'm hurt, angry, pissed. It's hard not to blame myself for her leaving because of our history. But she is somewhat 'indifferent' now, so I guess the love is gone.
And, it seems, you can't really detach from the situation.
So...rather, than suggesting that by sheer willpower you refrain from being obsessed with every move of your wife, I will suggest some things tht might prove helpful to your sanity:
1. Start adding things to your life that enhance your joy and personal power. I think it needs to be quite radical and all consuming. A new hobby or sport. Rock Climbing? Karate? Boxing? Something that has stress release AND requires extreme focus. Maybe even learning a musical instrument. This will give your mind time to breathe. It forces you to live in the moment and frees you from anger, worry or fear for the time you spend doing it. Better than self-medicating. Pick one this week and start. Really, this sounds silly, but it will help.
2. It seems your close friends and acquantences are scattered across the country. Maybe you need some people near you that you can see on a regular basis. Stong male friends. Your wife seems to have a network of people she can lean on. You need one too.
Regarding your wife's flirting. Well, you know that when she gets into that "I need to grow for me" mode, then anything is acceptable to her. She's sending some vibe out that she's available. She's not having an affair yet, but it looks like she's open to one.
You can't stop her from having an affair. The more you try to, the more needy to get.
Work on your yourself. That's your only hope.
Wait and watch. She may have an affair, she may not.
You promised her that if she had an affair again, you were done.
Two days ago you said that you have things under control, are detaching and eating right - feeling better. You words are not the words of a man that's detached and letting his W go. What you're posting does not give the picture of a man that has things under control and has an improved attitude.
I'll say it again - PLEASE go to your Dr. and tell him/her what's going on and get some help. Yes, you've helped a lot of people and know a lot of stuff about DB-ing, but the people who are urging you to get help have been around the block a few times too. Some of us may know a duck when we hear it quacking! I'm saying this because I've known you to be a good man who's been here when other's needed you. Your friends are trying to be here for you now and tell you that you need professional help.
If you don't believe me or anyone else, please listen to Amy. Think about it.. would she tell you to seek help if she didn't honestly believe that advice is needed?
