Well, I avoided that question since it was written by YOU and not her, so I am not sure how accurate all of those feelings are. But, I will go through it again and reply directly to it as it is written. Back in a few!
I wrote it using the words she has used to describe how she feels to me in the present, and from 2 years ago. It's accurate.
I just got off a call with a fellow whom I was working with on a medical type program. Not for money (well, a little cash but mostly equity) but a project we want to sell as an idea to medical companies. We are working with a well know Cancer doctor at USC Medical center.
I've been late on it several times and was supposed to have it ready for demo today. It's not, and I asked for a couple more days to get it ready. But, he said they can't wait any more and we will have a meeting on Sunday to hand over what I've done so far so they can find someone who has time to finish it.
Just before Christmas we had a long talk where they told me they couldn't understand how I could say I was able to get this done, but deadlines came and went and I didn't finish it. As one guy said "When I tell someone I'll have something done I get it done. I don't understand how you are able to do this?".
Neither do I. I'm just broken. How do you explain 'broken'?
In the past it would have been a slam dunk for me. It's complex but well within my skills when I'm focused. I really believed I'd have been on a roll by now after my week alone in dec-jan and after feeling like my W and I were finally going to be able to work together because I had reached my bottom and had enough of wallowing.
I guess the humiliation of being a failure again, especially to people who had put a lot of faith in me, is hard right this minute. I really can't cry much any more, but I will so I can release this and at least save SOMETHING.
I've been trying and trying to explain this to my wife, how it feels, but she can't hear me I guess. Now it's no longer appropriate.
Don't worry, I'm not going to wallow in this too long. I expected it eventually. Life has to get better. It can't get any worse.
I am so broken right now.
Yuck. This sounds terrible. You must be feeling really despondent right now. I remember when my H first told me he didn't think we'd make it married. I, the star employee, the one who always got top reviews and always got everything done ahead of time, was a complete flake. I could barely read, let alone finish a project on time. It was a bleak, bleak thing.
I am not trying to compare my situation to yours, but I am certain you hurt. And I wish I could just help a little bit.
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
O.K., I tried to let go of the things I know of you and reply as if I were replying to someone in the "I'm Thinking about Leaving" forum. I don't know if any of this will help you, but maybe seeing another perspective will help you stop beating yourself up so much.
Quote:
My husband has been on and off in his depression and we had a split up 2 years ago where I ran away to an affair. I learned that it was a bad idea and my husband APPEARED to have got his issues resolved, especially one of medicating with alcohol when he was angry or hurt.
What exactly did you learn from the affair? It seems as though you are almost blaming your husband for it by coupling the affair with the statement that your H APPEARED to have gotten his issues resolved.
After 6 months or so of being back together, our financials were bad and he wasn't productive. Were YOU being "productive?" (WHat does this even mean? Are you saying that he had the ability to earn money but just refused?) What were you doing to help with finances? He started drinking at night until he fell asleep. Sometimes he would eat everything he could find in the fridge. Other times he would be angry and tell me that I needed to 'save him' because he had used all his energy and was feeling empty and alone. Sometimes he would tell me that it still hurt to think about the affair, and I would cry because I thought he'd never forgive me. An affair is a very difficult thing to get past. Sometimes the person that had one realizes the mistake (as you seem to have done)and just wants to move on. That is not quite fair to the spouse. I do believe it is possible to move forward from an affair, but it cannot be swept under the rug. What things did you and your H do to work through this? Please do know that it is true that time heals. My H cheated on me, and it took me a long time to get here, but I rarely think about it anymore (when it used to consume my every thought).
Last fall I volunteered at the local high school band as an officer of the boosters so I was usually gone on fridays and saturdays. I would come home and he'd been drinking, and our D12 was there.
I got to where I was afraid to leave him home alone because if anything went wrong, why he may not be able to deal with it. What kinds of discussions did you have about this? Did he put your children in any danger? Did he ever, for example, drive with them while intoxicated? I don't claim to know a lot about alcoholism. Did you seek support from professionals? Did your H? If not, is he willing to do so now?
I kept saying I would stay with him, I made a commitment to get him through his MLC but there were nights when he was so angry, at me for my affair, or for not being able to help him, saying 'you can help others, why can't you help me'. He would tell me how much it hurt to be him, he had anxiety and fear.
I tried to tell him to see a doctor, or a counselor or go to AA or something but he wouldn't listen to me because he thought he should be able to fix it himself. I called one of his friends once but that didn't help. I tried to support him but it didn't help. Men do not generally seek help until they are forced to by something (say a DUI, a wife leaving, etc). My H is the same way--- he thinks that seeking help shows 'weakness.' Again, affairs hurt everyone, but I have been told that they are much harder for men to get over than women. Did you two work with anyone in dealing with these issues? No marriage counseling?
He would tell me over and over how much he hurt, how he felt alone, and I was afraid he'd kill himself. I know he had low self esteem because his business was doing badly, he said he couldn't focus, and I kept telling him I loved him, we'd be all right. This must have been hard for you. Did you really have reason to believe he could kill himself, and if you did, what did you do about it? I know I sound like I am being hard on you, but I do have a soft spot for men. Have you ever thought about how hard it would be to be one? So much pressure! From the time they are boys they have to always be in control. They have to put themselves out there and face rejection by asking us girls out (and they also need to come up with the money to do so!) When they get married they take on a lot of responsibility. They see themselves as the head of the family, and they want to provide well. I know that shaky finances are scary, but to a man they can be downright devestating. Author note: I really do believe this, and am not tailoring this in any way to make Frank feel better!
But the pressure of not being able to pay our bills from month to month, borrowing money from friends and family and his nightly medicating just built up. I just knew I didn't want to go through this AGAIN with him, but I made a commitment and told him I wouldn't leave him again.
Is there anything you did for this relationship other than make a verbal commitment? What were your actions?
One night in November, he was just so angry and hurt and mean that I just knew I had enough. I knew I could only save myself now because he wasn't going to save himself. I read that sometimes for one person to continue growing and having a good life they have to let go of someone who has been frozen, who is not growing. I know I made a commitment to him, but I also made a commitment to myself not to stay in a bad relationship again.
What do you mean when you say he was so mean? Was he abusive to you?
I also truly believe that he can't help himself as long as he thinks I'll never leave him. I told him that once and he said that he was actually insecure and afraid I WOULD leave him because of past experiences. I can understand how this sign of weakness can be a turn off to you. We want equal partners, not someone hanging on us. But, is it enough to leave a marriage over?
I also realized that I wasn't teaching massage like I wanted to because I didn't feel ok traveling, after what I had done in Hawaii. I also was worried he'd be anxious and drink while being responsible for the kids. But at Frank's insistence I went to a 5 day training in December so we could build that trust between us. THis seems very positive. You must have trusted him with the kids at this point, no?
One interesting thing that happened there was I connected with a nice guy who complemented me often and made me feel like it was 'ok' to accept complements. I sent him a funny looking cheap felt hat for xmas as a way of thanking him for his kindness. Not a good plan. But you know this, don't you? When Frank found out, I felt guilty and told him nothing happened , which was true. I was just being nice by sending a 'thank you' gift. I know I had some kind of 'feelings' and I liked the way I felt. But being around Frank didn't feel as good because of all his problems. How much of this did you communicate to Frank? What was his response?
I wet away for a week to Rome with D17, and when I came back I was exhausted but also needed his support. Didn't you say you had financial problems and were borrowing money? How in the world could you go to Rome? He didn't read my mind until I told him I needed support and he did help me get it together. Sorry, I don't understand this But I knew it was over for me, the pressure was there and the connection between us was faded. I told him it was over, and that I had been done since November but I didn't know how to tell him until now. Of course, through all of this that connection faded. But faded is not the same as gone forever.
He started to change his life, but I've seen that one before and obviously he can't stick to it. He said he was working on his own 'growth' because he didn't finish what he had to do when he was busy 'saving' us. Yeah, right. I've heard that before too. I just got angrier the more I saw him 'trying'. I told him it was 'too late'. Yes, it is frustrating when you feel as though the other person should have done something sooner. But, I am here to tell you that it sometimes is not that easy. I am in this situation with my husband- the opposite of yours. I had a lot of changes to make. I made some, then I got complacent because I thought that they had "worked." More issues came up before I could truly understand that I had only done a fraction of the work I needed to do. By then my H was "done." In the past year I have grown so much and have learned to like myself. My H admits that he likes me, too, but that he is afraid that we will go back to the way things were. So, if it seems as if I am being hard on you, this is why. I know that I can now be the wife that I should have been long ago, and it hurts so much to not be given the opportunity. I want to believe that your H is seeing his errors now, too.
Do I love him? Yes, I'll always love him but I've been afraid to let him go because I didn't think I would be ok on my own. I know that there are people out there who love freely and aren't living in hurt and despair. It's time to let go of old ways and learn to love fully and deeply instead of living, waiting, for Frank to be there. What if we rephrase this to: It is time to let go of old ways and for Frank and I to love fully and deeply. Seems you both have been very guarded.
My regrets? That I couldn't make my marriage work, and that I couldn't keep my commitment to him. But I can't do this any more. It hurts too much to see him hurting, and I want something different and I accept that we've grown in different directions.
Something different doesn't have to mean a divorce. It is possible to let go of the "old" marriage to and work towards a better, stronger one.
It's better for everyone I doubt "everyone" includes your children... if we find our own happiness. I don't want to be a 'wife' any more. I keep telling him that but he doesn't seem to get it. WHat parts of being a wife don't you want? Instead of telling him just that, can you be more specific?
I know he'll find a way to get us out of the financial mess, that's what he does when he's challenged. Hmm. This seems very different than the picture you painted at the beginning of this post! He'll make sure the kids have a decent house to live in so they can finish school. Sounds like a good guy, a good dad... I can't do that, I'll be lucky if I can afford a good apartment. I'm not sure how I'll get there but I'm working on growing my business so I can support myself. I know this is off topic, but maybe growning your business within the marriage would be helpful...not only for finances, but for your self esteem. I bring up self esteem because you were obviously looking for someone to make you feel a certain way when you got into an affair. Have you given good thought into why you did what you did? What did you come up with?
Today he seems to be angry and hurt, which I expected. At least his feelings are no longer my burden!
Ouch.
I'm feeling so much better now, I'm exercising and dieting which means I am learning to love my body again - something I didn't do when I was with Frank, and unhappy all the time. Please don't blame this on him! A man cannot help us to love ourselves or prevent us from loving ourselves. It has to come from within I'm going to pursue my teaching career which means traveling and meeting new people who want to improve their spiritual lives. These are the kind of people I feel comfortable around now because they are expanding their lives and growing. Sounds like your H is working on growing...
We're going to stay in the house and get along for the kids sake until summer. Frank told me he wouldn't stay in the house if I started dating - like I need someone else to help me move on - and I told him that was stupid, if we're emotionally separated what difference does it make? I told him I could care less if HE dated, just as long as he didn't bring them around the kids. I don't plan on dating right now. If you are going to be in the house until summer anyway, why not use that time to do what you can to work on this marriage????
So here we are. Frank is pushing me away which doesn't bother me, I have plans to make and plenty of friends to talk to. I know I've done the right thing because it 'feels better'. I hope that he finds some balance and stops pushing you away. That must make your decision easier.
My friends support me because they have listened to me tell them how miserable life is, and how I wish he would get through this because it's been scary not knowing if this will ever end. Well it has, I'm done and I'm reaching for my dreams. Do these friends offer you any alternatives to leaving? In my circle, true friends want families to succeed. True friends tell me not what I want to hear, but what I need to hear. Do these same friends tell you that kids are resiliant? Man, I hate that!
For the sake of your kids.... if you aren't going anywhere until summer anyway, why not work on your marriage? You might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome. Are either of you currently in counseling?
Frank, I am so sorry to read this. I understand being "broken" and not being able to give your best. Please forgive yourself this, just as you would forgive someone else in this same spot.
Call me optimistic, but you did say you asked today for a couple more days to get it ready, but that the answer was "no," and that you need to hand it over on Sunday. Looks like you have your "couple of more days," no?
Regardless, please, go easy on yourself. You have beat yourself up enough.
Please find yourself a counselor. Your wife isn't in a place to help you through this anyway. You would be better served getting this all out to an impartial person...
Thanks CMNM, your perspective kind of helps me see that there could have been more 'support' or actions by both of us. I assure you I was never abusive, nor did I ever drive my kids when drinking.
W has gone out to dinner with her friend 'Jon' who is in town. Nice fellow, has a girlfriend and lives in the Bay area. He was also at the 'teacher training' retreat in december. I'm sure he's heard an earful already on the phone. Maybe he's wondering how she was be telling people in december in the 'sharing circles' how I was 'her rock' and she loved me, and now she's telling him that she's 'done'. Assuming he remembers any of that.
He will of course support her in her choices. He'll see her 'happy' so that will prove she's made the right decision. He did that last time so there's no reason to think he'd get on her case about this being a bad idea. After all, she tried to make it work.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm going to pray that he looks at her and says "W, you're running away again. You know this isn't the right thing to do".
Stop making so many assumptions, Frank! You will drive yourself crazy. You have no idea what your wife is saying/not saying. I don't get how you are so sure your wife is showing "happy" to the outside world. You seem to believe that she made this decision and now has the weight of the world off of her. With the scarcity of deep communication between the two of you I just think that you are assuming too much.
Oh, and I totally believe that you were never abusive and that you never put your kids in danger. I was trying to post as if it were to someone new, and those are things I would have really said. I hope someone else gives that post a shot, too. You are so wrapped up in one way of thought that it would be nice for you to see other perspectives.
You get some sleep tonight, o.k? You need to take care of yourself before you can take care of anything else.
I've read that post twice, and all I can come up with is "You and your husband have a lot in common. You both are obsessed with you." I admire your creativity in reacting to the imaginary post, CHNM.
jack_3_beans suggests I learn 'apathy' towards her.
Be nice to her when she's nice to me. If she's not, well forget her I have better things to do. Wear my anger for her actions like armor, not a sword.
He suggests that I replace the pictures of she and I and the kids with pictures of the kids. His reason being that anything that interferes with me staying strong needs to go.
I just put those up a week ago before she did this. I notice that when she comes into my office and I turn around to talk to her she looks to the side so she doesn't have to look at the pictures I guess.
Frank, the fact you went so far as to create a hypothetical "post" that could have been written by your wife if she were here instead of you is very disturbing to me no matter how much of it came from things she has said previously.
I will not abandon you but I think you need to snap it the hell together or seek professional counseling immediately.
