I'm not being flippant. I'm just not arguing with you. Go back and see for yourself how your descriptions read.
I guess I see people being pretty mean. Think 'emotionally stressed wife' who no longer sees a future here. I guess I want to be more fair. Is that wrong?
Frank, I have to agree with Amy here. In fact, I posted to you once a long time ago (first time around), questioning why you wanted to be with such a person anyway. Your reply was very defensive, so I backed off and didn't post anymore.
I see the same thing going on now. What is your pay-off for constantly defending her and blaming yourself? Please think hard about this. You have been doing it for years, so there must be something you get from it. The only other answer I have is that you think she may be reading your posts and you do not want to put it out there that you don't think she is the greatest thing ever.
Personally, I used to post about my H with the rule in my head that I would never say something on here that I would be worried about him seeing. It kept me in check and kept me from exaggerating anything. But, when people pointed things out to me, I did not dismiss or defend. I tried really hard to see things from another perspective.
Although, any of that would just require you to think about this more, and I don't know if more thinking is the best thing for you right now!
What is your pay-off for constantly defending her and blaming yourself? Please think hard about this. You have been doing it for years, so there must be something you get from it. The only other answer I have is that you think she may be reading your posts and you do not want to put it out there that you don't think she is the greatest thing ever.
No, she doesn't read this board. She is generally 'Internet Impaired' and does E-Mail and websites people send her but that's about it.
I guess I'll answer by posing a question.
What would you say if a woman came on this board and was 'done' and she said this:
--
My husband has been on and off in his depression and we had a split up 2 years ago where I ran away to an affair. I learned that it was a bad idea and my husband APPEARED to have got his issues resolved, especially one of medicating with alcohol when he was angry or hurt.
After 6 months or so of being back together, our financials were bad and he wasn't productive. He started drinking at night until he fell asleep. Sometimes he would eat everything he could find in the fridge. Other times he would be angry and tell me that I needed to 'save him' because he had used all his energy and was feeling empty and alone. Sometimes he would tell me that it still hurt to think about the affair, and I would cry because I thought he'd never forgive me.
Last fall I volunteered at the local high school band as an officer of the boosters so I was usually gone on fridays and saturdays. I would come home and he'd been drinking, and our D12 was there.
I got to where I was afraid to leave him home alone because if anything went wrong, why he may not be able to deal with it.
I kept saying I would stay with him, I made a commitment to get him through his MLC but there were nights when he was so angry, at me for my affair, or for not being able to help him, saying 'you can help others, why can't you help me'. He would tell me how much it hurt to be him, he had anxiety and fear.
I tried to tell him to see a doctor, or a counselor or go to AA or something but he wouldn't listen to me because he thought he should be able to fix it himself. I called one of his friends once but that didn't help. I tried to support him but it didn't help.
He would tell me over and over how much he hurt, how he felt alone, and I was afraid he'd kill himself. I know he had low self esteem because his business was doing badly, he said he couldn't focus, and I kept telling him I loved him, we'd be all right.
But the pressure of not being able to pay our bills from month to month, borrowing money from friends and family and his nightly medicating just built up. I just knew I didn't want to go through this AGAIN with him, but I made a commitment and told him I wouldn't leave him again.
One night in November, he was just so angry and hurt and mean that I just knew I had enough. I knew I could only save myself now because he wasn't going to save himself. I read that sometimes for one person to continue growing and having a good life they have to let go of someone who has been frozen, who is not growing. I know I made a commitment to him, but I also made a commitment to myself not to stay in a bad relationship again.
I also truly believe that he can't help himself as long as he thinks I'll never leave him. I told him that once and he said that he was actually insecure and afraid I WOULD leave him because of past experiences.
I also realized that I wasn't teaching massage like I wanted to because I didn't feel ok traveling, after what I had done in Hawaii. I also was worried he'd be anxious and drink while being responsible for the kids. But at Frank's insistence I went to a 5 day training in December so we could build that trust between us.
One interesting thing that happened there was I connected with a nice guy who complemented me often and made me feel like it was 'ok' to accept complements. I sent him a funny looking cheap felt hat for xmas as a way of thanking him for his kindness.
When Frank found out, I felt guilty and told him nothing happened , which was true. I was just being nice by sending a 'thank you' gift. I know I had some kind of 'feelings' and I liked the way I felt. But being around Frank didn't feel as good because of all his problems.
I wet away for a week to Rome with D17, and when I came back I was exhausted but also needed his support. He didn't read my mind until I told him I needed support and he did help me get it together. But I knew it was over for me, the pressure was there and the connection between us was faded. I told him it was over, and that I had been done since November but I didn't know how to tell him until now.
He started to change his life, but I've seen that one before and obviously he can't stick to it. He said he was working on his own 'growth' because he didn't finish what he had to do when he was busy 'saving' us. Yeah, right. I've heard that before too. I just got angrier the more I saw him 'trying'. I told him it was 'too late'.
Do I love him? Yes, I'll always love him but I've been afraid to let him go because I didn't think I would be ok on my own. I know that there are people out there who love freely and aren't living in hurt and despair. It's time to let go of old ways and learn to love fully and deeply instead of living, waiting, for Frank to be there.
My regrets? That I couldn't make my marriage work, and that I couldn't keep my commitment to him. But I can't do this any more. It hurts too much to see him hurting, and I want something different and I accept that we've grown in different directions.
It's better for everyone if we find our own happiness. I don't want to be a 'wife' any more. I keep telling him that but he doesn't seem to get it.
I know he'll find a way to get us out of the financial mess, that's what he does when he's challenged. He'll make sure the kids have a decent house to live in so they can finish school. I can't do that, I'll be lucky if I can afford a good apartment. I'm not sure how I'll get there but I'm working on growing my business so I can support myself.
Today he seems to be angry and hurt, which I expected. At least his feelings are no longer my burden!
I'm feeling so much better now, I'm exercising and dieting which means I am learning to love my body again - something I didn't do when I was with Frank, and unhappy all the time. I'm going to pursue my teaching career which means traveling and meeting new people who want to improve their spiritual lives. These are the kind of people I feel comfortable around now because they are expanding their lives and growing.
We're going to stay in the house and get along for the kids sake until summer. Frank told me he wouldn't stay in the house if I started dating - like I need someone else to help me move on - and I told him that was stupid, if we're emotionally separated what difference does it make? I told him I could care less if HE dated, just as long as he didn't bring them around the kids. I don't plan on dating right now.
So here we are. Frank is pushing me away which doesn't bother me, I have plans to make and plenty of friends to talk to. I know I've done the right thing because it 'feels better'.
My friends support me because they have listened to me tell them how miserable life is, and how I wish he would get through this because it's been scary not knowing if this will ever end. Well it has, I'm done and I'm reaching for my dreams.
My husband has been on and off in his depression and we had a split up 2 years ago where I ran away to an affair. I learned that it was a bad idea and my husband APPEARED to have got his issues resolved, especially one of medicating with alcohol when he was angry or hurt.
After 6 months or so of being back together, our financials were bad and he wasn't productive. He started drinking at night until he fell asleep. Sometimes he would eat everything he could find in the fridge. Other times he would be angry and tell me that I needed to 'save him' because he had used all his energy and was feeling empty and alone. Sometimes he would tell me that it still hurt to think about the affair, and I would cry because I thought he'd never forgive me.
Last fall I volunteered at the local high school band as an officer of the boosters so I was usually gone on fridays and saturdays. I would come home and he'd been drinking, and our D12 was there.
I got to where I was afraid to leave him home alone because if anything went wrong, why he may not be able to deal with it.
I kept saying I would stay with him, I made a commitment to get him through his MLC but there were nights when he was so angry, at me for my affair, or for not being able to help him, saying 'you can help others, why can't you help me'. He would tell me how much it hurt to be him, he had anxiety and fear.
I tried to tell him to see a doctor, or a counselor or go to AA or something but he wouldn't listen to me because he thought he should be able to fix it himself. I called one of his friends once but that didn't help. I tried to support him but it didn't help.
He would tell me over and over how much he hurt, how he felt alone, and I was afraid he'd kill himself. I know he had low self esteem because his business was doing badly, he said he couldn't focus, and I kept telling him I loved him, we'd be all right.
But the pressure of not being able to pay our bills from month to month, borrowing money from friends and family and his nightly medicating just built up. I just knew I didn't want to go through this AGAIN with him, but I made a commitment and told him I wouldn't leave him again.
One night in November, he was just so angry and hurt and mean that I just knew I had enough. I knew I could only save myself now because he wasn't going to save himself. I read that sometimes for one person to continue growing and having a good life they have to let go of someone who has been frozen, who is not growing. I know I made a commitment to him, but I also made a commitment to myself not to stay in a bad relationship again.
I also truly believe that he can't help himself as long as he thinks I'll never leave him. I told him that once and he said that he was actually insecure and afraid I WOULD leave him because of past experiences.
I also realized that I wasn't teaching massage like I wanted to because I didn't feel ok traveling, after what I had done in Hawaii. I also was worried he'd be anxious and drink while being responsible for the kids. But at Frank's insistence I went to a 5 day training in December so we could build that trust between us.
One interesting thing that happened there was I connected with a nice guy who complemented me often and made me feel like it was 'ok' to accept complements. I sent him a funny looking cheap felt hat for xmas as a way of thanking him for his kindness.
When Frank found out, I felt guilty and told him nothing happened , which was true. I was just being nice by sending a 'thank you' gift. I know I had some kind of 'feelings' and I liked the way I felt. But being around Frank didn't feel as good because of all his problems.
I wet away for a week to Rome with D17, and when I came back I was exhausted but also needed his support. He didn't read my mind until I told him I needed support and he did help me get it together. But I knew it was over for me, the pressure was there and the connection between us was faded. I told him it was over, and that I had been done since November but I didn't know how to tell him until now.
He started to change his life, but I've seen that one before and obviously he can't stick to it. He said he was working on his own 'growth' because he didn't finish what he had to do when he was busy 'saving' us. Yeah, right. I've heard that before too. I just got angrier the more I saw him 'trying'. I told him it was 'too late'.
Do I love him? Yes, I'll always love him but I've been afraid to let him go because I didn't think I would be ok on my own. I know that there are people out there who love freely and aren't living in hurt and despair. It's time to let go of old ways and learn to love fully and deeply instead of living, waiting, for Frank to be there.
My regrets? That I couldn't make my marriage work, and that I couldn't keep my commitment to him. But I can't do this any more. It hurts too much to see him hurting, and I want something different and I accept that we've grown in different directions.
It's better for everyone if we find our own happiness. I don't want to be a 'wife' any more. I keep telling him that but he doesn't seem to get it.
I know he'll find a way to get us out of the financial mess, that's what he does when he's challenged. He'll make sure the kids have a decent house to live in so they can finish school. I can't do that, I'll be lucky if I can afford a good apartment. I'm not sure how I'll get there but I'm working on growing my business so I can support myself.
Today he seems to be angry and hurt, which I expected. At least his feelings are no longer my burden!
I'm feeling so much better now, I'm exercising and dieting which means I am learning to love my body again - something I didn't do when I was with Frank, and unhappy all the time. I'm going to pursue my teaching career which means traveling and meeting new people who want to improve their spiritual lives. These are the kind of people I feel comfortable around now because they are expanding their lives and growing.
We're going to stay in the house and get along for the kids sake until summer. Frank told me he wouldn't stay in the house if I started dating - like I need someone else to help me move on - and I told him that was stupid, if we're emotionally separated what difference does it make? I told him I could care less if HE dated, just as long as he didn't bring them around the kids. I don't plan on dating right now.
So here we are. Frank is pushing me away which doesn't bother me, I have plans to make and plenty of friends to talk to. I know I've done the right thing because it 'feels better'.
My friends support me because they have listened to me tell them how miserable life is, and how I wish he would get through this because it's been scary not knowing if this will ever end. Well it has, I'm done and I'm reaching for my dreams.
I'd say: Is there any way, any way at you can get to a counselor?
And then: If you've accepted that she's done, and you're in agreement that the marriage is over, then we're all here to support you as you work through the end of the relationship.
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
Frank, You will have a hard time believing this, but my first thought if I read that post from someone would be this:
What the hell are you doing going to Rome if money is an issue?
(No lie, but that's just me.)
Then, as I read I thought, "You are scared, and rightfully so. Thank God this man has time to get his stuff together, because there is great potential here."
And finally, I smiled as I read it, because I reminded myself that it was written by YOU, and I knew that it must have been hard for you to dive off of the "DB God" pedestal and admit some very hard truths. Now I know that you can move forward. You put it all out there, and guess what? I am willing to bet that people here still respect and admire you.
I know I do. All the more.
P.S. There are no DB Gods and Goddesses. Geesh, even Michelle makes/made mistakes in her marriage. It is not about not making mistakes, it is about what you do to correct them. For the record, I am not implying that you thought of yourself as one. I am just remarking on the fact that you were afraid to admit this stuff was going on because you felt as if you failed not only yourself but your loyal friends and readers.
Frank, You will have a hard time believing this, but my first thought if I read that post from someone would be this:
What the hell are you doing going to Rome if money is an issue?
Her Grandmother gave her 1/2 the money as a gift, and the other 1/2 as a loan. It was a goal since last spring since they had been invited and we paid a little at a time.
One of those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities to go with the band and play at the Coliseum.
Quote:
Then, as I read I thought, "You are scared, and rightfully so. Thank God this man has time to get his stuff together, because there is great potential here."
thank you.
Quote:
And finally, I smiled as I read it, because I reminded myself that it was written by YOU, and I knew that it must have been hard for you to dive off of the "DB God" pedestal and admit some very hard truths. Now I know that you can move forward. You put it all out there, and guess what? I am willing to bet that people here still respect and admire you.
I don't really have a choice. I'm a survivor. Can't just die because my kids would suffer. That's not acceptable to me.
Well, I avoided that question since it was written by YOU and not her, so I am not sure how accurate all of those feelings are. But, I will go through it again and reply directly to it as it is written. Back in a few!
I just got off a call with a fellow whom I was working with on a medical type program. Not for money (well, a little cash but mostly equity) but a project we want to sell as an idea to medical companies. We are working with a well know Cancer doctor at USC Medical center.
I've been late on it several times and was supposed to have it ready for demo today. It's not, and I asked for a couple more days to get it ready. But, he said they can't wait any more and we will have a meeting on Sunday to hand over what I've done so far so they can find someone who has time to finish it.
Just before Christmas we had a long talk where they told me they couldn't understand how I could say I was able to get this done, but deadlines came and went and I didn't finish it. As one guy said "When I tell someone I'll have something done I get it done. I don't understand how you are able to do this?".
Neither do I. I'm just broken. How do you explain 'broken'?
In the past it would have been a slam dunk for me. It's complex but well within my skills when I'm focused. I really believed I'd have been on a roll by now after my week alone in dec-jan and after feeling like my W and I were finally going to be able to work together because I had reached my bottom and had enough of wallowing.
I guess the humiliation of being a failure again, especially to people who had put a lot of faith in me, is hard right this minute. I really can't cry much any more, but I will so I can release this and at least save SOMETHING.
I've been trying and trying to explain this to my wife, how it feels, but she can't hear me I guess. Now it's no longer appropriate.
Don't worry, I'm not going to wallow in this too long. I expected it eventually. Life has to get better. It can't get any worse.
