So H and I have had lots of ups and downs (see my thread in For Newcomers re. Confused Husband). I found out about his Affair in Nov. He said he didn't see how we could work it out. Still lived at home the whole time, but goes to a hotel on days he "Can't handle being with me". Then said point blank, IT'S OVER. That's when I found the DR book and started the 180 and GAL immediately. After 2 weeks of DB'ing, he says he has ended it with the OW, he has told me he wants to see if we can fix things with us, and told our MC he went from "It's over" 2 appts. ago, to "We'll see" at our last appt. All of that sounds great, right? We have had three our four really nice evenings at home with the kids in the past week,and he has been calling me from work more and generally being around us more, too. All good. But immediately after I found out about the A in Nov, he said he wanted to move out for about 6 months to focus on himself--he often says he feels like he is going crazy and doesn't know what to do--and figure out what he wants. He is still planning to move out Jan. 20, has a 6 month lease on an apartment, and I helped him buy furniture for it since our kids will be there part of the time. He only bought the bare minimum in furniture, I asked if he wanted to get pictures for the walls, etc., he said "I don't plan to be there that long, just need the basics". He also had ME lay down on the mattress he got to see if I liked it. I asked why he wanted my opinion, and he said "If things work out it will eventually be OUR new mattress". So I guess he has an open mind about things? Anyway my point is I have avoided any heavy R talk the past couple weeks. But we are telling our S on the 19th (We agreed on this at the MC, he doesn't need a long advance warning since he is 5), then he will go see the apt. on the 21st with me and H,to get an idea of where Daddy will be. Anyway we also agreed at MC to make up a calendar for S with each day labeled M(mom) or D(dad) so he knows what to expect, who he will see each day, etc. H said he figures one day a week he'll come out to our house to see them, one day they'll go to his place for the evening (they'll have to come back bc he goes to work too early to take them to day care)and then alternate weekends. But we also talked about one family night a week (maybe going to church and spending Sundays together) so kids still see us as a family. Anyway that talk was one week ago. We haven't sat down and made out the calendar, which we need to do before we tell S so we have it ready. Also, I would like to address ground rules, questions about separation before it happens, such as: 1)Are we going to see others or not during this time? (Of course I say NO, and since he says he ended the A I assume he does too but I think it should be clarified.)
2)If there is a night other than agreed upon when he wants to come out to the house, should he call first, ask me, etc?(In other words, what are our boundaries)
3)Are we going to have any dates/time alone together during this time? (After all if we are trying to work things out I would assume we should spend time together; but with my DB ideas I would think I should let him approach me for time together??)
4)Do I just wait for him to want to talk about R since he is the undecided one? I am just confused on wanting to fix things/we'll see. If we never talk about anything, how will we see? Or is the separation where he spends time alone deciding if he wants the R, then after he decides that we work on things??
5)Who are we telling that we are separated? (I just filled out new daycare paperwork since I am going back to work in 2 weeks, he said to list his address as our home address on the forms. Last week, he said he didn't plan to give a new address or phone number to his work, either, and didn't plan to tell work friends,and wasn't sure if he wanted to tell his family--but our parents/siblings will HAVE to know, I think.)
So anyway we are having such a nice time together as I 180, just take the good days for good days as much as I can, don't act too excited, etc. I hate to undo all the progress by dragging him in to an R discussion, but I guess it is more of a separation discussion. He hasn't even finished getting the stuff he needs for his place (no toddler bed for our D, no bedding for him or S, etc.), and stuff like that drives me crazy bc I like to be prepared. So, bottom line, how do we talk about how the separation is going to work without screwing up my DB attempts?
I am kind of new to the board and almost 3mths into my own seperation. I don't think you should start R talks. I don't think you should completely foil your DB efforts. I would let him bring up R talks. I think you should act as though you are comfortable with the seperation. I know it stinks and my issue would be why does he want to still move given his decision to try and work on things. I can understand the need for space for clarity. Personally, I think I would avoid asking questions about seeing other people. I know it seems like there should be some guidelines, but I am not sure if asking about guidelines will help anything. I mean if he is going to be with OW or have an affair he is going to do it weather you put guidelines on him or not. Guidelines might just make him lie about it. Since the affair was just in Nov I might question weather it is completely over. I would not set guidelines. If you don't want to date then you don't date and if you find someone that you might potentially want to be friends with then I would say OK. That is the chance he is taking when he decided to still seperate. Also, leave the questions regarding furniture and getting stuff for the kids alone. Now that you are going to be seperated that is for him to worry about. Bite your tounge. I do thnk he should call before coming to the house on a visit where he is not scheduled. I would not address it until it happens though. Tell him you won't drop by unannounced (and don't) and he should not either. I would tell your close friends and family you are seperated. Again, that comes with the territory. Don't make this easy for him. You don't have to make it hard, but see it for what it is. If you make it easy I assure you he will have his cake and eat it too. In my opinion you are in a position of power. He is saying he wants to work on it and as far as you know he does. He says he is not with OW and I say take it with a grain of salt, but accept it since you don't know otherwise. Use these things as tools to make it through this. You don't have to be sad or depressed at this time becuse again as far as you know he wants to work it out. Be strong now, DB now before this goes any further. Start out strong, stay strong, use this time to GAL. When he has the kids by all means enjoy your time. Avoid R talks as much as you can and by the end of 6 months hopefully your H will be home.
Oh yeah, don't you approach talks about date night let him. Also, I am wondering if guys are starting to have MLCs in their early 30's. There seem to be quite a few WAH that are in their 30's including my own who will be 34. I wonder if this is a transitional age.
I agree with Hope. I wouldn't bring up any R talks or set guidelines about dating. If you don't want to then don't, but he is going to do what he wants to do. Hopefully he won't, but you can't control that.
I also agree with letting him take care of the furniture and everything for his apartment. That is HIS problem now, not yours. Let him see what it is like to truly be on his own and don't come to his rescue, don't make it easier on him (by the way, I have this problem too).
I hated when my H dropped by unannounced. I didn't think it would bother me...but I couldn't drop by his place unannounced. Just didn't seem fair. You will have to decide if it matters to you. I wouldn't bring it up until it happened though.
Let him bring up R talks. Don't pressure him to make a decision. Give him the space he wants and go and do things for yourself.
I would be careful who you tell. I told close friends and family...and then when my H started changing his mind all my friends thought I was crazy for even giving him the time of day. A lot of people don't understand that you would want to work it out. I agree you need to tell a few people for support and so they know what you are going through, but be selective. People who aren't in the situation don't know what they would do...they know what they THINK they would do. I definitely reacted differently than I thought I would.
Thanks so much for all the helpful advice! I think I will pretty much follow all of it! He called from work today for something, and the only comment I made was, "So at some time soon I suppose we should fill out those calendars for [son]." He sighed and said, "Yeah, I know we need to do that", but he sounded a little regretful (I am sure I read into things though). He goes on a cattle trip out of state with his best guy friend from back home (that guy is a really good guy, so much so that my H hasn't told him about his A or the pending separation bc he doesn't want the best friend to hate him) in 5 days, and the day after he gets back, we are telling S about the separation, the next day H leaves. So we have 5 days to figure out our visitation for the first few weeks, and what exactly we plan to say (D is 20 months so we are only explaining to S). But I have decided I will say and do nothing more regarding the separation because he is the one who decided to move, so he needs to take the initiative. I will not tell him what to pack or what he needs for the kids, I won't give him any guidelines re. dating others, dating me, etc. The only thing I will do is set up the calendar of who spends time with the kids when. And I won't do that until he brings up making the calendars. And I will leave it to him if he wants to schedule "Family Days" or not, I will just worry about his days/my days with the kiddos. You are right, he was raised by a mom who planned his every move, which I know he resents, but also I know means he hasn't ever really had to do things all for himself. So I will let him figure out how is going to live his "Separated" life, and I will worry about mine. And of course, give love to the kiddos the whole time. And his parents and siblings know the situation so far, and so do mine. But we haven't told anyone else. I think I will leave it to immediate family only. Besides, I kind of see the not telling his friends/coworkers as a good thing bc maybe he is thinking that it will be easier for us if/when we get back together if fewer people know. If he was out shouting it from the rooftops, I would be more afraid that he is done trying with me.Thanks again!
So last night H came home from work, ate dinner, and had a "normal" night with me and the kids. Played on the computer with S. Read books with D. And once the kids went to bed, we sat in the TV room on separate couches to watch TV, but wound up in a 20 minute conversation about his job--his company may get bought out which could put his job in jeopardy. We even talked about a few other job options he is looking at. He volunteered this info, I just casually asked, "How is work going? You don't look quite as stressed this week" bc his job is a MAJOR source of stress. One woman had a heart attack at work about 5 weeks ago, and in the past another guy had a heart attack and died at his desk, and 2 or 3 others in the last 10 yrs. have had heart attacks or strokes at work due to the stressful nature of the job. He always says he is not happy with his job which I know affects his happiness w/everything else. I almost hope he goes and gets a different job because the change in stress level might do him a lot of good. But any job change will involve a move, and he will have to make bigger decisions about R with that. Although two weeks ago he mentioned if he got a job back home by our parents, he would think that the kids and I would move back too?? So as far as my original question about separating and DBing, I went totally silent on that yesterday. I didn't ask him anything about moving out. Once early in the night he mentioned he was having the furniture delivered instead of picking it up (bc he saw a letter from the furniture store on the counter, that brought the subject up), but that was it. I am not going to ask him again to fill out the visitation calendar or get supplies ready for kids. The ball is totally in his court on those things. We actually had a really nice night (two in a row!), and tonight I will be gone to IA to watch his niece play b-ball. So when he went to bed, I said, "I will see you Saturday then." He responded that if he gets off work early he may come up for the game tonight too, but I doubt it. Anyway after a couple good days in a row it would almost be nice if he had tonight without us to think about what he wants to do, and if being with us is really as bad as he sometimes says it is.....Thanks for listening!
Hi Bobbijo-- I thought about you today because your H and your situation really and truly mirror mine- time frame for affairs and all. My husabnd claimed to have had one issue of infedelity in 2002 (yet I only found out in 2005 and that is after we moved to a new place and I was unpacking and a box of condoms fell out of his pocket). He fessed up only after he had been busted. He did the same thing your H did (we should just seperate, you will never trust me again, why do you want to be with me). Besides my strong feelings about marriage I could not have left if I wanted to (no job, no money, kid, pets). H will not admit it, but I believe affair happned in 2005 and not 2002. He said 2002 because he figured the damage would be less if it was years ago. Anyway in summer of 2005 he was distant, intamacy started slipping and he started staying out later under the guise of "softball". We never did counseling I was just a blubbering mess until things blew over. Fast forward to 2007. I was seeing those same behaviors, but this time he would not admit affair. I don't know for a fact if he is or was cheating, but I do know that I was not willing to become the same shell of a woman I was before. No way, no how. I asked him to leave and he did. I do get "I still love you and will always love you", but I got the same " I have not been happy for a long time" speech. Our H's seem to mirror eachother in many ways. I would get those same calls and texts when H was out late. H goes out of his way now to tell me where he is or who he is going to be with (now I would be a fool to think he was telling me all, but still some effort on his part). I say all this to say that DB will start to work just give it time. At first it feels really contrived. When I started to go dark and GAL it felt forced because really and truly I am a family person so for me my life is my H and my kid. My H was my best friend. We started out as best friends so that was who I hung out with long before we were married. I had to make new friends. At first I had to fight the urge to call and ask questions, now most of the time I don't bother. Trust me you will get to a point where you will take not only a long hard look at yourself, but also your H as well. YOu will find yourself eventually asking do I want H back. If you decide to take him back he will think twice before treating you as a doormat and if he does you will be able to walk away. You will find that staying in your marriage will have to do more with your convictions regarding keeping your family in tact and believing in marriage than it has to do with keeping H. I know this because H came over for an hour alone and I had no desisre to go down and talk about H. I know this because on Friday night I did not ask him what he was doing, but he did ask me (I told him nunya). I know this because H called me last night when he went to the ER (did not do a follow up call toady). I know this because H plays more lovingly than before. Now it could be his attempt to establish a friendship so that if and when we D we can still remain friends. I am hopeful that it is because he is trying to work his way back, but the difference is the more time that we are apart the more I feel that I will be prepared if D happens. You will get there. You are doing well so keep it up.
Sounds like we have a lot in common. Actually, I was in shock Saturday bc for once I wasn't sure I wanted H to recommit, at least not the Alien who took over his body. I thought, if I came home tonight (I was in Iowa Fri/Sat) and he had his ring on and wanted me back in his bed and his life, I couldn't just say, "OK". Even though it is what I have been praying for. Too much has happened (negative) and so much still needs to happen (positive). So as I am on the fence, he texts me twice and calls me, and I don't answer. Usually it is the other way around. Finally he left me a msg "Call me!" So 20 minutes later (don't want to be eager" I call. He is almost home from his hay-hauling trip and expects we will already be home. Me and kids were going to be back at home @ 4 cause hubby said he'd be back then. I knew he wouldn't, he is always gone longer than he thinks with farm work. So at 6 I talk to him and he is 90 minutes from home, and I haven't left my parents in Iowa--hee hee. He is shocked that I am not waiting for him (I can tell by his voice). He calls/texts me on my way home, and is waiting for me once I get there. We had good night Sat, spent Sunday as a family at church (Where he held my hand for 5 min.!?!), went out to lunch, H and S went out to do yard work together in afternoon, pretty nice. H even confided in me that he is dreading moving out, which is why he hasn't done the preparations he needs to do. I ask after kids in bed, if you are dreading moving out, don't want to go, why are you going? Not to plead with him, just to try to help him sort out his emotions--he is soooo bad at sharing and communicating which is a big reason we have problems. He keeps it inside so I don't know he is unhappy, then does dumb stuff like having an affair to express his unhappiness?? Anyway, he says he is leaving the house so he can have some peace and time and space to work on himself. I gave him a"Detach With Love" type letter 4 or 5 days ago explaining that I knew the A was his choice, but that I also was realizing the role I played in our problems, listed the goals I had for working on myself, and said I was letting him go to work on whatever he needed to work on and hoped he would find the peace he needed. So when he said he needed the time to work on himself, I asked if he had a plan for that, he said still going to MC and will start his own C, too. Asked him about us being physical again, said I didn't think I could go without that for 6 mos (his lease time, and yes I know I shouldn't have brought up the physical thing!!). He said it wouldn't be 6 months. Don't know if he meant the separation or the physical thing. He just said being physical for him allowed him to avoid our problems. I said I looked at it as one part of our relationship that has always worked well that we could keep doing while we worked on our R, since it would help us stay connected on some level. But then I said if he wasn't ready that was fine, I hoped he would find the peace he needed while he was gone. A while later he got up to go to bed, came over to my couch, and hugged me tight, rubbed my back, and kissed my head. Would have rather he kissed ME, but it was a big step either way. At least he finally initiated touching me--it was two weeks ago last time we were intimate, and nothing since then. Today I go with him after work to look at his Apartment, I want to see it before the kids do. We got a sitter, don't know if we will go to dinner or anything after. How should I act about the apartment? Don't want to seem to excited bc I hate him moving out, but don't want to undo the progress my 180 was making either. Any suggestions??
So tonight is basically our last night in the house together before we separate. H goes on an out-of-town cattle trip (totally legit, I know for SURE), Wed-Sun, and he gets possession of his Apt. on Monday. So he will probably be here Sunday night, too. But you never know with him. He has bowling first (the OW from his PA/EA that he says ended 2 wks ago is on the team). I am planning to contact him not at all while he is bowling. Last wk he texted me 3 times though when I didn't try to reach him. Anyway, once he gets home I intend on being upbeat, pleasant, etc. I am upbeat bc I finally started working again today (sub teaching) after 2 years at home. Had an awesome day. See my posts on "For Newcomers" re. Confused Husband for a recap if you want. Anyway he was upbeat today,he actually said "ILY" when he left for work this morning, the first time in several weeks he said it spontaneously. I had texted him re. how much I am loving my job after only half a day (texted him at lunch), he replied back how excited he is for me, and asked me to stop by his work after school got out. So I saw him and was upbeat, he asked about the day I had (even though we had already texted about it), he seemed genuinely glad to see me so thrilled. Told him I already had 4 more sub days lined up. Anyway H said he'd be home early tonight as he has to pack everything for trip and get up at 4 am for 6 am flight. So I know logically he will have time for nothing tonight but packing and going to bed. But emotionally, I am hoping for SOMETHING from him, some gesture, with it being our last night. I know on one hand that is silly bc after all, he is MOVING OUT by CHOICE, not shipping off to war or something. But with a hug and kiss (first in 3 weeks) on Sunday night, and an ILY this morning, and him saying he is moving out so he can have the time and space to fix himself (he admitted he has needed to work on himself for the last 12 years but hasn't wanted to do it, now he does)not just to get away from me, I still feel like I want SOMETHING to happen. I don't know what, another ILY, something physical, some sort of regret about moving out, I don't know. But I know from past experience this week that the closer he gets to Move-out day, the more emotional I have been getting, and backsliding in some DB moves. So I will bite my tongue as needed tonight and be happy camper. But man, it just kills me to think he is really, truly leaving. That we have to tell our kids next Monday (S5 anyway, D20 months won't really know much is happening) Daddy is moving out. So wish me luck in not doing anything stupid tonight. Thanks in advance!
Bite your tongue till it bleeds. I will pray for you because I know you will need it. Is there anyway that you can possibly just be in bed by the time he gets home? I remember the night H left I took a sleeping pill. I ended up bailing on work/school the next day. I spent the whole day crying, but I needed to. At any rate, try and be sleep and if you can help it don't mention it. It is going to be hard, but most likely you won't get the reaction you are looking for, but since you know this be prepared. Also, on the day he leaves can you be out? Maybe go to dinner or to the mall? It will be hard sweetie, you will feel like poop, but take it from someone you has been there if you can find something to occupy your time it will make it easier. If you don't have to go with him don't. If you plan on going then just go with kids and make it brief. Stay upbeat and stay positive. Don't say anything negative and don't break down. If you want I will put my email at the bottom of this. You can email me and I will give you my number. You can call me if you want and bawl your eyes out when it's all over. I take a special interest in your sitch because your H sounds so much like mine. It seems like they have the need to be nice guys all the while breaking our hearts. You will get through this. I am hoping you can benefit from my experiences. Also, with my S I just told him mommy and daddy could not get along and just like when he can't get along with others we are taking a time out. My H really procrastinated when it came to telling S. He thought we were going to be able to go months without mentioning it. He would go so far as sto stay until 10pm so son would not realize he was not living there. I put a stop to that. I told him if he wanted to leave then part of that meant telling our son. If he was so damn worried about how S would react maybe he should not leave. I finally told H myself.
