It's hard not to be angry. I found myself getting 'snippy' at her tonight. I need to stop that. I need to make a list of things I want from life and just work towards that.
she makes eye contact with me around the kids and smiles, but away from them she is 'blank'.
OK< this is the "hope" that I see. You turn your business around and make a lot of money. She hasn't found a new wealthy Prince Charming yet, so she changes her mind and stays. Not all decisions are driven by love. Sometimes the answers are a little more expedient.
Here's the hope that I see: nothing is final. Ever. I think we've all been through/are going through the emotions that come with facing the end of our marriages, and the feelings, they seem so REAL, so FINAL. But they aren't. They change, constantly, some quickly, some slowly. Any way you slice it, you cannot predict with 100% accuracy the ending to your story.
So detach from the 'reality' that your M is over. Stay in piecing until the D is final. Get your focus back on yourself and stop worrying how every little thing is going to affect your R. (Talking to myself here too.)
I've never posted to you Frank, but I'm following you and just want you to know that I am among the crowd here who admire your strength and integrity. Stop looking at your mistakes. You know what they are, and that you don't want to repeat them. That's enough. No one is perfect. I have no doubt that you will pick yourself up and excel again. You've done it before.
Frank the mistake that you are making is trying to make her see the way that you are now starting to see.
SHUT UP!
You know, I don't get this comment. She's not crazy like before, she's just had enough and thinks she needs to move on. What is it you think that 'I' am seeing that she isn't seeing? DB 101: No pleading, begging, promising, bargaining, etc...that's what you're doing when you're telling her all that you have "realized" and you're only sounding pitiful. Sorry. She's heard it all before.
Maybe there is something SHE is seeing that I'm not seeing? I do not believe that for one thin second. In fact, that you might actually believe that is almost funny if it weren't such a frightening testimony to your current state of mind.
I'm not beating you up Don't care if you were. I can take it. , I'm just looking for answers They're not going to be found on this board unless you open your eyes and get off the pity pot, positioning yourself as a man of war instead of a loser whose always a day late and a dollar short. I know that's harsh but I think harsh is called for in dealing with you right now. You are a very intelligent man but Frank, your street smarts SUCK. . I don't understand why anybody thinks there is 'hope' for us any more Mainly, because of her emotions. The opposite of love is indifference. She is angry, sad and trying to be resigned to her belief that you can't grow and change. I assure you that if you get this process underway, her heart CAN STILL be turned back to you. Frank, I am proof. . There's hope for ME as an individual, and hope for her as an individual also. But 'us'? Yep. But you have to be changing for you or it's not gonna stick. 2X you didn't get it right. I say the 3rd time's a charm.
OK< this is the "hope" that I see. You turn your business around and make a lot of money. She hasn't found a new wealthy Prince Charming yet, so she changes her mind and stays. Not all decisions are driven by love. Sometimes the answers are a little more expedient.
You seem to have a lot of sarcasm and anger towards her. Why is that?
I don't have an explanation. I don't know her, but what I've heard of her doesn't make me respect her. I see a woman who is touchy-feely and namby-pamby and looking for a ride through life. And I think she is typical of many women who share a delusion that a savior will come along and give them their dream come true. Maybe I am hostile because no one made my dream come true, instead I've faced adversity with steely determination. And I am scornful of those who I believe do less.
Thgere's more. I think all that spiritual path stuff is malarky and code talk for avoiding responsibility. Why is it that no thought is given to the idea that her purpose in life MIGHT BE to be a good wife and mother. No, that isn't even a possibility to be considered. Her life's purpose is to have a big massage business. Excuse me while I barf. And that is somehow SPIRITUAL in nature.
Well I am a good wife and mother. And I work two part-time jobs. I don't need to go traveling around the world seeking spiritual pathways, I have work to do right here at home. I have kids to feed, and problems to solve, and kids to get through high school, and college and keep in their first job. I have to find a way to pay all the bills. So yeah, I'm not impressed with her peaceful ways, and how everybody likes her, cause I see someone who is riding the waves through life and looking for a new surfboard.
Maybe there is something SHE is seeing that I'm not seeing? I do not believe that for one thin second. In fact, that you might actually believe that is almost funny if it weren't such a frightening testimony to your current state of mind.
Even I fall down sometimes. So you are convinced she is not seeing anything clearly then.
Quote:
I'm not beating you up Don't care if you were. I can take it. , I'm just looking for answers They're not going to be found on this board unless you open your eyes and get off the pity pot, positioning yourself as a man of war instead of a loser whose always a day late and a dollar short.
Ok, ok. I said I've been knocked way down for months now but not asked for help, except from my wife who cannot help. Yes, I'm 'smart enough' to know what is going on but right now I'm in emotion, not logic.
And most importantly, I've been living in the fear that if I didn't do 'the right things' she'd leave, and she did.
So help me. I know I can help ANYONE else but I'm stuck right now helping myself.
I'm already having a hard time being weak when I know a lot of people have relied on me being strong for them. I don't ask for help much in my life.
I spent a couple hours on the phone with 'blyndfaith' who has been great helping me get a perspective. I'm mad, and hurt because I know I gave 'my all' 2 years ago to save her from that a-hole predator and her own destructive self. I KNOW I was clear to her about a year ago that I was slipping into anxiety and as little as 2-3 months ago I almost begged her to help me get out of the cycle I was in and she didn't do anything but 'talk' about 'idea's' that might work.
She never called a friend and said 'please come over, frank's a wreck and needs help' or even my best friend who lives on the east coast and TOLD her after we reconciled that she should call him if we ever needed help. she called him ONCE, we chatted, I told hi I was down, I felt better. She never did anything else of substance.
But that doesn't matter now.
I need to get out of my emotional mind and into my logical mind. I need to make a list of what needs to be done to get my financial and emotional self in order. I need to get some 'wins' under my belt so my self esteem can be rebuilt. Most importantly, I need to regain my INTEGRITY and VALUES
What else?
How do I 'live' with her right now? I don't even want to talk to her because I am so angry. Blyndfaith says 'detach - now'.
Quote:
I know that's harsh but I think harsh is called for in dealing with you right now. You are a very intelligent man but Frank, your street smarts SUCK.
'street smarts'? What does that have to do with this?
There's more. I think all that spiritual path stuff is malarky and code talk for avoiding responsibility. Why is it that no thought is given to the idea that her purpose in life MIGHT BE to be a good wife and mother. No, that isn't even a possibility to be considered. Her life's purpose is to have a big massage business. Excuse me while I barf. And that is somehow SPIRITUAL in nature.
Ok, I understand what you mean now. You said what has been bothering me too which is 'how do you know your spiritual path is NOT to actually learn how to deal with adversity - once and for all? I mean, on the one hand it's said that 'you learn from one partner, then move on to the next after the lesson is done'. But WHO decides what the lesson was and when it is 'over'? Whomever wants to 'move on' because it's uncomfortable?
What if the lesson was, as you said, to LEARN how to be a wife and mother under difficult circumstances? What if she got 'me' as that 'partner' so she could learn that lesson. Our 'highs' have been very high and our 'lows' have been very low. If we could balance each other out we'd do great.
She told me once that in previous 'lives' she thinks she sacrificed herself for her lovers and that in THIS life the 'lesson' is to know when to 'let them go'.
I agree with you. It is a way to allow yourself to not be responsible. That doesn't diminish my responsibility for myself in this whole thing, but as Blyndfaith has said to me, 'do you bail on someone who has cancer?' Then why is it ok to kick someone in the gut when they are down as she clearly knew about me for months? Because I was sometimes angry and she got hurt?
By the way, she has always been a good mother. a little over protective though. Both our kids (d12 d17) are confident and self assured.
Quote:
Well I am a good wife and mother. And I work two part-time jobs. I don't need to go traveling around the world seeking spiritual pathways, I have work to do right here at home. I have kids to feed, and problems to solve, and kids to get through high school, and college and keep in their first job. I have to find a way to pay all the bills. So yeah, I'm not impressed with her peaceful ways, and how everybody likes her, cause I see someone who is riding the waves through life and looking for a new surfboard.
I agree with Sara on all this spiritual stuff your W talks about/ believes in. It just seems to validate her need for any easy cop out. Believe me, I understand wanting an easy cop out - I tried to end my life when I found out about my H's A but then I had a revelation and realised just how much harm that would cause. Also my weding vows preceeded any of the crap that occurred later on and those are what I hung on to.
Your W does not come across well the way you talk about her. I take it with a pinch of salt because you are angry and hurting but she really sounds as though she has no backbone. She sounds like she uses all this spiritual stuff as an excuse to move on and doesn't say what it's really about, like you aren't supporting the family in a financially secure way etc.
From what you post you appear to not be healthily focused. You look at the small detail rather than the bigger picture. I mean, what does it matter about the pictures on the wall? Get some money in man, do some stuff to make you see your own self worth. Don't focus on your W. If you really believe you are past saving your M then stop banging on about your W and tell us about what you are going to do to heal YOU and help your children.
Instead of paying for flights for your W to go and visit people who you suspect are supporting her in her decision to move on, go pay for some cognitive therapy, (and I know you probably think you know more than the therapists and are more intelligent than a lot of them, but they might just give you enough encouragement to get you out of this whole you have dug your self). You may have stopped drinking but you sound like someone who has a drink problem still. I know all about that - my dad was the worst drunk; full of self pity. You have got to stop that and as many have said - MAN UP.
Open your eyes, you have so much going for you. Stop reacting to your W's every nuance and little comment - it's driving you down and stopping your progress. Also, stop dwelling on the past. You have realised your mistakes; now learn and move on. Stop harping on about what has been and look to the future.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
