Aaaack!! That's not what I meant. Poor choice of emoticon on my part. I didn't take what you posted personally. I meant I was frustrated. This can be a good form of communication for some things and not so good for others.

I forgot you had written that your wife feels attacked. Not too surprising that you thought that is what I meant. I'm sorry.

Let me explain the source of my frustration. Maybe it will have some relevance to discussions with your w. When I try to give you some idea of what things may look like from another perspective, I'm not trying to convince you to take on that pov. I'm just trying to describe it to you. (Remember, you asked for it ) Often your response is to provide more info on your pov. It seems like a reasonable response...in a debate. It doesn't work if you're really trying to understand what makes someone else tick AND/OR trying to communicate that you want to understand them.

Understanding another person rarely involves explaining yourself to them. It involves listening to them, and I don't mean half-listening while you're generating arguments to what they have said. Reflecting what you have heard. Accepting it as their view, regardless of your own.

Now, I'm not trying to get you to understand me. That's irrelevant. Some of what I post isn't even my pov. It's your wife you said you wanted to understand. Do you or did you respond to her explanations of her pov, on any topic with emotional content, not just sex, with explanations of your own pov? Do your discussions turn into arguments or debates when this happens? Or does your wife just shut down and not want to discuss it anymore? Both are defensive reactions to not feeling understood.

You are both trying to feel understood by the other. However, when no one acknowledges the others pov as a valid pov, even if not their own, then no one feels understood. Who should go first with expressing understanding? Doesn't matter, as long as someone does. It might stop that tug-o-war game. You walk toward your wife instead of pulling back. Once she's recovered from having fallen on her backside because the tension is gone from the rope, she might be better able to reciprocate. Yes, I know, she could do the same for you. But she isn't right now and it is a royal pain in the a$$. I'd be saying the same thing to her if she were here...walk toward your h. But she's not here and you are.

The above is rather on the theory side of things rather than on specific suggestions. Would you like some specific things you might say or do which could communicate understanding?

Sleepily, MPT

P.S. For the record...I do understand that sex/ml is very, very important to you. You need it to feel fully connected to your W. Your m doesn't feel complete to you. It sometimes becomes overwhelmingly distressing. Yours is a valid position...for the simple reason that it is yours and it is a part of who you are. You do not need to explain it to me anymore. I understand.