Well... I will say it may be my misunderstanding of the definition of cow, but I see cow as... 'nurturing,' which covers that definition and then some. I get a definite feeling of 'Mom' when I think of cow. Mojo often says... "I do cow and bake pies.' LOL. The only person who bakes pies... that I know of... is mom or grandma... to bring the warm, cozy feeling to home. And there isn't anything wrong with that... I think it is great and necessary, especially for building a strong 'home' feel for everyone.
But when I think of 'cow' in terms of an H... geeze... ewh. That gets into 'mommy-ing' your H... and I just don't know any way faster to kill a sex drive than getting parental with a spouse (conversely, a man being too much St. Bernard with his W).
I put a St. Bernard and a Cow together in my head... and the only nookie I can see coming from that pairing is... for procreation reasons... in the dark... and most of your clothes on.
Strange. I think of a woman doing your description above... nesting, baking pies, and doing that warm cozy stuff for me, and I want to slowly take all her clothes off and snuggle her whilst making love with her. I think the cow is damn sexy and definitely has a place in the rotation.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Strange. I think of a woman doing your description above... nesting, baking pies, and doing that warm cozy stuff for me, and I want to slowly take all her clothes off and snuggle her whilst making love with her. I think the cow is damn sexy and definitely has a place in the rotation.
No, you really don't. The cow may... entice you... but... if I understand you correctly... you really DO want your cow to morph into a Lioness in bed. Otherwise, you are fcking your mother. Hence the phrase...
SG: I said I was okay to agree to disagree... but on further thought... your last post... actually proves my point. So... if you don't come asking questions, we will let is all BE... otherwise...
No, you really don't. The cow may... entice you... but... if I understand you correctly... you really DO want your cow to morph into a Lioness in bed.
Sometimes. I certainly enjoy sampling her well-stocked zoo (harem?). But that's not what I had in mind when you painted your picture.
Originally Posted By: Corri
Otherwise, you are fcking your mother. Hence the phrase...
I can see why it would turn you off. Somehow that doesn't have the same effect on me. (Maybe because the nurturing vibe doesn't call to mind my actual mother and thereby turn me off?) Perhaps your XH was the same way and drove you nuts encouraging your cow and then trying to have sex with you?
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 01/11/0804:23 AM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Okay. It doesn't on you. For me... I get the distinct... ewh... sensation. I just can't fathom going to bed with a cow... I can fathom a St. Bernard.... and I get the same... lackluster response in me... but... as you say... it could just be me... shudder...
Strange. I think of a woman doing your description above... nesting, baking pies, and doing that warm cozy stuff for me, and I want to slowly take all her clothes off and snuggle her whilst making love with her. I think the cow is damn sexy and definitely has a place in the rotation.
Ewh!
The cow, to me, is NOT repeat NOT sexy. Something my H will sometimes do when I am up to my armpits in soap-suds is come up and start canoodling me from behind. I absolutely HATE it. I hate the fact that seeing me doing this stuff is what turns him on. Seeing me really digging in and getting down to some hard-core household chores seems to be his porn. Excuse my while I vomit.
It comes down to LLs I guess. His LL is AOS so when I am busy doing that stuff he sees it as me "loving" him. When I am busy doing that stuff I am not doing it to love him. I am doing it because it needs doing. I can hardly feel less loving than when I am doing household chores. They are CHORES they need to be got over with so that life can go on and I can do more interesting stuff. The last thing I want is to be interrupted in the middle of them for some hot-luvin leaving the chores still hanging over me. Maybe if he did it after the chores were done to show me his appreciation of my hard work or something I would respond a bit better.
Just thinking about the whole zoo thing. My parents largely vibed monkey with each other except when my dad would turn wolf and mum would vibe weak bunny. My in-laws vibe strong bunny/puppy with each other with very strong elements of Cow and St Bernard. There doesn't seem to be much sign of monkey, or wolf/lioness.
H vibes weak puppy, no monkey, over-stretched St Bernard with a wolf that snarls occasionally when the St Bernard's had enough.
When we were first M I vibed mostly monkey (which is still my response to his weak puppy) and mostly lioness. The bunny was and still is very weak and kept well hidden for her own protection. (I think my parents very under-developed cow/st bernard may have something to do with that.) The cow has always been there in moderation. I think due to my undeveloped cow and his own mother's very strong cow my H would vibe puppy to try and bring out the cow. In my eyes all pupplies are weak which is why I bring out the monkey - to try and laugh away this aberration of nature. If my response is monkey he brings out the wolf for protection after initially playing even weaker puppy, if my response is lioness he reverts to resigned and long-suffering St Bernard. Of course the cow came out of the pen when the kids came along - which goes a long way to explain his jealousy.
When I was a little kid we sometimes used to get to watch nature movies in the school hall on a Friday afternoon. Cute furry animals with big eyes would sometimes feature and there would be a general sigh of AAAAAH! I would look around to see if there was anyone else like me that didn't automatically have an aaaah response. I've since talked about that with my sister and she agrees she felt the exact same way.
Am I dysfunctional for having a puke response to a grown man for trying to pull a puppy-dog-eyes look on me? Or is he dysfunctional for even trying it?
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I am absolutely 'cow' when I am nesting, cleaning, cooking, taking care of kids... an H will naturally benefit by default from such activities
Nope. You have to feed the man first or you have effectively rendered him into a low status beggar rat in your own mind and killed your own sex drive. Simple tribal rules. You do it even when he comes home from the hunt empty-handed because that shows good faith. The cow is faithful. When my 2bx honestly said that I did everything a woman could to help him, this is a good part of what he was saying. I consistently made the effort to place him in a position on dominance but he didn't want the responsibility. He knew our marriage was over on the evening I chose not to feed him. It was a clear sign that I had lost faith in our marriage and respect for him. Of course, I was too cow relative to my other animals. I should have demanded more respect and affection from my 2bx but withholding sex or the extra pork chop from a man is not the way to do it. Doing that will just turn him into a submissive monkey/puppy who you will not want to f*ck. It's true that I was "too surrendered" in my marriage but many of the women on this BB are/were "not surrendered enough".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
In the dating years I vibed healthy bunny/monkey and my H healthy puppy/monkey and it worked. I grew up in an enivonment where my mother was weak bunny to my father and non sexed cow to us kids, while my dad was definitely St Bernard...noy much sex going on there.
After marriage I became weak bunny towards my H but had a lot of cow ( responsisility and nurturance) at work. I really needed the wolf, and would encounter that at work sometimes and get a thrill. At home, my H was weak puppy and our sex life stalled. He became dysfunctional monkey in the outside world, and the flirting/playful stuff shut down weak bunny even more.
After kids, my non-sex cow came more into play and the bunny was really dying at this point. H continued with weak puppy at home and dysfunctional monkey in the world.
When I came to this board, for the first time lionness and monkey came out, and it was so much fun! My H had removed weak puppy from the scene, and was acting more like mean, dysfunctional wolf. I think all my inner animals got excited by the possibility of a wolf on hand ( finally), but my H's wolf was directed elsewhere. His St Bernard also made an appearance, but not towards me.
My lionness/monkey came out so strongly it eventually helped to redirect my marriage to get the attention of my H's animals. Now I am getting a healthy rotation of the whole spectrum from him....he has really grown, but it took outside assistance ( unfortnately). And I guess I needed space from his weak puppy to grow too.
I know now that I need my H to have part wolf in the picture, to compensate for my bunny tendencies. I have been able to give up the cow as I had been stuck in that child raising, nurtuting mode for so long I desperately needed a change. My challenge is to keep lionness and monkey going now that dysfunctional wolf is gone.
You have to feed the man first or you have effectively rendered him into a low status beggar rat in your own mind and killed your own sex drive.
I think this is true but for some reason despite my H's weak-puppy-please-be-a-cow thing, whenever I was nurturing cow in our early M he would rebuff me. Maybe he was rebuffing his own weak puppy. Or maybe I was reminding him of weak puppy when he was in another mode. I never did the cow thing in response to the puppy. Just has he is LD in the sack he is also somewhat LD of being fed, often leaves half the food on his plate, declines the proffered extra pork chop (in which case I would eat it). More weak and ailing puppy stuff? Too weak to even eat? In which case what WAS he looking for. Anyway he would most likely then go and find the ice-cream tub and polish the lot off without even bothering with a bowl.
What Fearless has said about her H wanting to be led but at the same time hating himself for needing to be led rings very true for me. Very much a no win situation. H: Be my leader, W: OK (dons mane etc), H: stop being so bossy, W: OK (dons bunny suit), H: (in whiny voice) Why do I always have to be the leader. Even despite him giving up the booze I'm still not sure he's the man for me.
Or should I just try to vibe strong bunny?
I don't even know where she hangs out anymore.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I think this is true but for some reason despite my H's weak-puppy-please-be-a-cow thing, whenever I was nurturing cow in our early M he would rebuff me. Maybe he was rebuffing his own weak puppy. Or maybe I was reminding him of weak puppy when he was in another mode. I never did the cow thing in response to the puppy. Just has he is LD in the sack he is also somewhat LD of being fed, often leaves half the food on his plate, declines the proffered extra pork chop (in which case I would eat it). More weak and ailing puppy stuff? Too weak to even eat? In which case what WAS he looking for. Anyway he would most likely then go and find the ice-cream tub and polish the lot off without even bothering with a bowl.
Of course, my 2bx is almost your H's twin separated at birth and by an ocean. My 2bx would simply complain about the food much of the time but then go ahead and eat it - lol. This is why I think Dr. Laura is only half right. If you don't feed/f*ck/admire a man your bad but if you do feed/f*ck/admire him and he doesn't do the masculine equivalent and you don't call him on it then your bad again.
Quote:
Or should I just try to vibe strong bunny?
Yup. My hindsight is 20/20 vision allows me to see that this is the one thing I could have done better. My lioness was also relatively weak when I joined the BB but she was functioning relatively well by the time my marriage broke up. The problem is that if a man has a weak St.Bernard he is often going to vibe dysfunctional in relation to strong bunny. For instance, one of my demands at the time of my separation was that we have some kind of date night once a week, even just going out for coffee, and my 2bx was just as disinclined to honor this demand as my demand for more sex. My bad in this instance was that, in a sense, I was using my lioness to support my weak bunny. I was "demanding" a date night rather than using a verb more appropriate to bunny which I still don't know what it would be - lol.
Anyways, consider the simple example of a man opening a door for you. If I had just stood in front of a door waiting for my 2bx to open it for me, odds are good I might have heard something like "WTF are you standing there for?" to which strong bunny might have smiled and replied "Why of course I'm waiting for you to open the door for me." Now, since my 2bx tended towards using dysfunctional wolf to cover his weak puppy he might have seen this as me asking him to placate and refused in a rude/sarcastic/abusive manner but terminator-bunny could have just continued to smile and stand there waiting for him to open the door until perhaps some random polite stranger happened by and opened it for me -lol.
Quote:
I don't even know where she hangs out anymore.
((Fran))
She's still there. I was amazed at how easily she reappeared when I started dating and men actually did do things like open doors for me and help me with my coat and buy me dinner and kiss me on the forehead and tell me that they really liked it when I rolled in for a cuddle. It's really easy to do your part of the dance when your partner does his. But back to the old BB motto- you're the one who's here so you're the one who needs to in a sense take the lead by refusing to take the lead or assertively following or something like that.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
