I hate that i don't actually have any helpful advice since you are always helping me and giving me things to actually do, but i did see this...
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We ended up having an 'R' talk yesterday, as a side effect of a discussion of her blaming me, about how our kids want our family together again. (she thinks it's my fault that our kids have been telling her they want us together again. It couldnt possibly be because THEY want us back together again? She claims that they only tell her that when they are with me, not when they are with her. very wierd, if true.)
This doesn't seem that weird given this (from earlier in your thread...
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they told me that they kept asking her if I could come over, when SHE has them. But she kept telling them "no", so they gave up asking her Well, technically she conflict-avoids by telling them "maybe" or "we'll see", and they are finally old enough to understand that from her, that means "no".
They know they can depend on you to validate their feelings and that, at least in this regard, you feel the same way. They know that if they say it when they are just with her, they are going to get a negative response, so why bother...
I agree with catfan, it really sounds like she hasn't forgiven herself. I hadn't forgiven myself for a while and i was all over the place with H. Once i did, truely forgive myself, i was able to look at this sitch more clearly.
If i can't fall in love... I'd like to fall in chocolate! ~ Author Unknown
They know they can depend on you to validate their feelings and that, at least in this regard, you feel the same way. They know that if they say it when they are just with her, they are going to get a negative response, so why bother...
Thank you very much. I think you have hit it on the head, and that is very helpful.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Yesterday, one of our children let me know that the reason he didnt say things about waiting our family back together over there, was because he "didnt want mommy to get angry at him." ! So there was some unexpected confirmation of the theory. I called her right after it happened. She didnt seem to take that news very well.
W came over for dinner this evening. The way she's been lately... for example, cancelling/postponing our promised make-up trip that was supposed to be on MLK weekend... made me wonder if it was going to be a disaster. (this was done two days ago, not after yesterday)
Happily, today's dinner was quite pleasant. Despite the fact that she had a bit of a cough that she mentioned has been dragging her down for the last few days. Although some slightly weird things came up... "things that make you go Hmmm."... It's amazing just how many times she can completely surprise me by going in an unexpected direction, just when i think i've prepared myself for every possibility.
No mention of "thoughts on forgiveness" from her (she said a few days ago she would "think about it".) But, given our seemingly very tense(but brief) discussion on our children's feelings yesterday... i was quite happy to just let it be an unperturbed pleasant evening tonight to balance things out.
Guess I'll just try to enjoy a positive evening, and let it go at that.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
today, as I dropped off our children, I asked my wife for 2 minutes of her time, to ask her a single question. I asked, "if, sometime in the future, one of our children did something to deeply, deeply hurt you... then he asked for your forgiveness.. would you choose to not forgive him until you felt better... or would you choose to forgive him, and work on your feelings?"
[background: she has said that she doesnt want to do anything even approaching reconciliation, because she has "too many negative feelings about the past"]
The FIRST (and pretty much only) thing out of her mouth was, "They're my children. the rules are different for children".
made me want to ask, "so what happens when they are all grown up, and they arent 'children' any more, but they still hurt you??"
but I had asked for just one question. so i stuck to my word, and just asked her to say what her answer to the question would be.
She said that she would choose to forgive them (rather than just going by her feelings)
That may be true... But by her actions towards me, seems like she's teaching them to never forgive anyone ELSE. And especially not the person who should be the most important to them; their spouse. (but that's ok, you dont have to forgive them anyway; just go find someone new?)
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yesterday, as I was saying goodnight to them on the phone, one of them told me that he wished we could be a 5-family again. Wonder if she even heard that. Dont think so; i'm guessing she was too busy doing other things. Which, sadly, is probably why he said it then.
I think they're too nervous or worn out to ask her about that any more. So they are asking me. Asking Daddy to Save Our Family. I wish I knew what I could do, other than "wait and be patient"
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I feel for you Dom. Have the exact same feelings. These WAWs are very bitter and unforgiving..... My STBXW does the exact same thing. Holding on and refusing to let go and forgive. Even the MIL said that is very un-Christian like. :P
M: 31 W: 31 M: 7 T: 8 S:4 D:2 Bomb dropped: too many to count or remember, 12/17/07 last one S on 9/2/07 W sent off D papers 12/31/07. Me trying to live life and hope she returns one day.
yesterday, as I was saying goodnight to them on the phone, one of them told me that he wished we could be a 5-family again. Wonder if she even heard that. Dont think so; i'm guessing she was too busy doing other things. Which, sadly, is probably why he said it then.
I think they're too nervous or worn out to ask her about that any more. So they are asking me. Asking Daddy to Save Our Family. I wish I knew what I could do, other than "wait and be patient"
Dom I think we all know that pain those questions can bring. I know my kids, especially D9 will hit me with that occasionally. They really are looking to someone to guide them and show them how conflict can be resolved. They really, really want to learn these lessons. Not to mention have their families back together and all the safety and security an intact family brings to them.
If you kids are like mine they are afraid of asking Mommy. Mine won't because they don't want to make Mommy cry. That's really, really sad to know they bottle up their own hurt like that. That they feel they only cause pain. If only our wives could set their own pain aside briefly to realize how this is so badly hurting our children. That if we worked hard on us and our marriages in the end we'd all benefit greatly.
Ah but logic isn't something that works now is it.
If we really want to love, we must learn how to forgive. - Mother Theresa
Sorry things are not going well for you. My h answers things in the same way. It is really hard but it is out of our control. My h keeps on saying it is his time now. Makes you wonder why the drag it out. I have been posting on infidelity page as o so complicated and here on seperated, would love to get your advice.