Jeff223 suggested I read something that has really resonated with me, and explains where I've been. Here are some excerpts that have been helping me to understand why I have felt the way I have and done the things I've been doing - or not doing.
This is from 'Mind OS' (http://doctorpaul.net) section on Anxiety.
Quote:
When someone is depressed and inactive he "thinks too much" and takes no action. He stores his anger inside and doesn't act on it - getting depressed. With anxiety, he does manage to keep it inside, think about it, not acting on it, thinking in a destructive way, a masochistic way.
What do you think happens when we are lazy with our minds? When we don't think before we act? Our anxiety gets channeled into all kinds of impulsive behaviors that don't necessarily benefit our lives.
Because we are on "autopilot," whatever is in front of our faces is where we spend our anxiety energy to try to lower it. We overeat, overspend, overwork, get addicted to drugs, alcohol or other behaviors as unconscious ways of lowering our anxiety through spending it on these physical activities. They are all temporary fixes that lower our anxiety, but if the original sources of that anxiety are still present - loss or fear of loss, or lack of confidence about a particular aspect of life, then we see a rise of anxiety again soon after indulging our addiction.
This so much describes the way I've been feeling for so long - always thinking / feeling like I can't ever get things to 'work out'. Like my W will leave me 'any time' since she's done it before, like I can't 'get working again' and I've 'lost my edge'.
Zoning out, avoiding the things I need to do because I don't believe I can do them.
I got some sense of 'feeling better' when I help others. But still feel stuck.
Quote:
When we think destructively with anxiety that is "victim-thinking", "martyr-thinking", or masochism. It is where you take on a "poor me" attitude, erroneously believing that you are truly hopeless, or helpless. You worry about the future and complain without offering solutions. You regret the past, and essentially are wishing you controlled the uncontrollable, "dumping" your anxiety into someone else's boundary. Doing all this may seem harmless, but it is not. You are dumping your anxiety into someone else to let them worry about for you. It is childish, win/lose behavior, where you win relief but someone else loses their sense of peace, by absorbing your negative energy.
Note that all the traits that go with playing the victim are also characteristics of nonbiological depression, and they are an illusion. We complain to the boss, we whine and moan about how helpless we are, we allow ourselves to believe there is no hope, and finally find ourselves winding into masochistic depressive thinking.
When we have this attitude long enough, people will get sick of it and turn on us, abandoning us and leaving us with even more loss than before. Complainers, whiners, moaners and masochists attract the attention of soft-hearted friends in the short run, but tire them out and lose those friends in the long run. So a negative feedback loop occurs where we get negative momentum for our personal growth. We started to make a "mountain out of a molehill" that drives friends and solutions away...
I don't need to say more. This is where I've been asking her to 'help me'. What a fool I've been.
Quote:
Anxiety is not good or bad, it is a signal. It tells you something is wrong and needs to be done. Anger signals you that you have unmet needs, anxiety signals you that you have fears, challenges, changes or risks to face and rise to.
I was sitting stuck in 'helpless' instead of 'challenged'. Now I'm in between. At least I can see the interaction we've had.
Quote:
Courage is the only way out of problems with anxiety, victimization, impulsivity, addictions and lack of confidence. Interestingly, the film, Saving Private Ryan defines courage very succinctly: "Do the Right Thing". Consider that knowing "the right thing" to do comes from your two inner decision-making resources, conscience and intuition! Courage then, is not bravery, not fearlessness or any other thing we lack or acquire - it is a decision!
We have no excuses. Courage is a decision, and if we are alive, we are capable of decisions, by definition. Every time we make a decision, we have to be in the "present moment," and therefore also have access to Observing Ego at those times. Courage is a constructive way of thinking before acting, done in a win/win way that sees the world as a place of abundance.
This is where the notion of faith comes in to intertwine with courage. To have faith in something, we need to have some degree of belief that our actions in the future will work out, even if we don't have conclusive proof they will. That takes some Observing Ego, first off—a "bird's eye view" of our abilities and function. But then we have to decide to think and act according to that faith.
Interestingly, we are most alone in the world when we act with courage, but after the moment we do it, the whole world wants to join us.
Courage is simply "doing the right thing, no matter how you feel, and even if you are afraid."
Yeah, right now I'm trying to figure out what 'the right thing' is. It's confusing in this context.
This next point is the answer to the question "What could my Wife have done to 'help me'?"
Quote:
What in the world do we do for a person who uses anxiety in masochistic ways? The person who gets an "anxious depression"? Well, remember that these people are thinkers, so they need to be spurred into action. Then they need to do the right action to get out of depression and masochism.
Notice how a masochistic person is primarily anxious, but a little bit angry about it too. They are think-ers, not do-ers, so they need to be jolted into action. However, that action must attend to their needs - to pull themselves up out of victim-mode a little by showing them they can actually feed themselves what they need rather than complaining that they are helpless.
The first step to the answer, then, is assertiveness. Once out of that victim mode though, they will need to vanquish their anxiety through courage, doing the "right thing" in a way that helps not just themselves, but others, too. Courage leads us to be champions of others instead of just victims or martyrs.
And my wife HAS 'spurred me into action' now and in the past. But that's the problem we've had, she is passive and doesn't 'spur me into action' until SHE has had enough of the situation and is ready to bail. That's the dynamic that has to change.
And it has to change with me. I have to do something I've never done before and that's let other people support me and KNOW me. Like FaithIsBelieving says, I need a 'Betterman' to keep me in check. It's just too easy for me to get stuck in the anxiety and inaction because I have so much childhood and other history where I have been overrun by others and even after all these years, I haven't mastered the 'confidence' part. I used to have it but it's been eroded away over time.
Maybe if you have a WAS that is in this same emotional place you might think about what you could do to 'spur them into action'. What could you do to help them see that they can 'feed themself'?
Woah. I love this whole post. The section on courage? Amazing. And so true once you stop and think about it. Courage is a decision. Simple and profound.
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing it and your reactions/feelings/thoughts.
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
She is somewhat distant, but occasionally present. I was working on fixing the drains in our bathroom sinks and she says "You sure have been working hard on that hon".
I tell her why it was a long task, then I get up and she offers to rub my back. I let her and when she's done I turn to her, say 'you are such a nice girl!' and move to kiss her. I get a close lipped millisecond pucker kiss. She does smile.
I smile and leave the room.
I'm sort of stuck. We really don't connect much and she is quiet most of the time. I know she's worried about money but like Amy said, I'm really 'too dependent' on her and how she is feeling because of the 'fear' of losing her again.
So, I don't know what to do as far as interacting with her. I think she's given up and is just waiting around to see if she's going to 'feel anything'.
I don't know if I should be assertive and break her out of this funk like Deida would say to do, or just give her space and deal with my current issues and allow her to choose to come back to me.
First thing you can do is take care of yourself. Emotionally, physically, professionally.
You are eating better. Good job.
Skip the walking, how about joining a gym? A Karate dojo? Something intense that will help you burn off the stress, focus and cleanse the mind/spirit. Pick something that will match your personal intensity.
Get your resume together soon. Put the business on a small hiatus and get a full time job. Steady income reduces the stress. With the FT job often comes decent medical benefits, which might include coverage for counseling.
That's what you need to do. First and foremost. Take care of these things and you'll be OK regardless of what she does. But as these things get more integrated in your life, you'll be more buoyant and, therefore, able to be more playful and light in your spirit, which will, eventually, help her break out of her funk.
Don't even try the Deida stuff now, you are too beat up. Even Deida says unless your purpose/mission is clear, you can't break through to her. Right now, your break though efforts will come across as a weak attempt to rescue her grounded in a fear of losing her. Sink into your chi first. You need to restore your personal power before you try to ravish her with you focused, self-confident and passionate love. Right now you're in emotional free-fall, having bouts of depression, in financial stress, having career issues, having panic attacks, and probably experiencing some kind of hypoglycemia.
First things first.
The Deida stuff needs to be enacted in a fun and playful manner. Right now your about as buoyant and compelling as Eyore.
Get some GAL under your belt and then have fun with the Deida stuff. I don't think your relationship warrants a "Last Resort Technique" approach. She's confused. It's OK to talk and engage.
Maybe your W is feeling all the same things you talk about in your post about thinking too much. Maybe that is why she is the way she is - she is frozen into non-action by her fears and anxieties.
If that is the case and her fears are based on your behaviour and the money situation, by getting a job and her seeing you are taking action, you may well start to see a change in your W too and start and upwards spiral rather than the downward one you have been on. I truly hope so.
That particular post was amazing - thank you for it. It rang so many bells within me as it is exactly how I naturally respond when something hits me.
I know you probably don't feel like this at the moment, but you are truly blessed. You have helped so many others and they want to help you in return. You seem to be starting to see this and accepting the help thay are giving. That is fantastic and don't forget that their helping you and seeing improvements makes them feel good about themselves as well so you continue to help them as they see you improve.
I look forward to reading about your rise from this abyss.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I think if you give her the space, and allow yourself to get out of your funk, she will come around when she is sttracted to your "Frankness". You are in a funk, and I think that is why she is probably acting the way she is.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Frank, as I remember it, you had the best success previously when you detached and just did your own thing, relying on her for nothing. You were in the same house and you were cordial but you were prepping yourself at that time for her departure. You began to live as if since she was "leaving" you'd best be getting used to her being gone so you acted accordingly - and it drew her back.
Remember that?
Maybe you can get to that place again.
But this time, do some real work on yourself while you are there.
I don't know if I should be assertive and break her out of this funk like Deida would say to do, or just give her space and deal with my current issues and allow her to choose to come back to me.
She is in a funk b/c she is responding to your energy Frank. You are projecting your negative energy on to her and just as MindOS says, our masochistic behaviors yield near term positive support from others to feed our over-dependence but over the long term they drive people away.
Also, remember that our masochistic behaviors are linked to our depression and our impulsive behaviors are linked to our aggression.
She is getting all your negative energy. Yet you seem surprised at her reaction and you take these reactions as negative on her part. You see her distance, her being quiet, her not being able to support you like you think she should as her pulling away. You see things repeating from two years ago.
Can it instead be that she is giving you space to work it out?
If you can turn your negative energy into positive she will respond; her funk will leave.
That is also the the concept behind DB - how our changes affect others.
Take stock - what three things can you do right now to create some positive energy?
And when you do them be proud.
When she says "You sure have been working hard on that hon" don't tell her why it was such a long task.
Tell her "Thank you" and that "I did not realize how plumbing work turns me on". Then take her right there in the bathroom, grimy hands and all.
Okay, that may be over the top - but you get the idea!
Take pride in even the smallest thing you accomplish - that is how confidence is built.
You began to live as if since she was "leaving" you'd best be getting used to her being gone so you acted accordingly
How prophetic.
Long post. Much of it is not good 'DBing' but It was a difficult morning. So, please don't beat me up about the 'DB mistakes'. Just help me focus on me, or your feelings about the situation.
Last night when we slept I held her hand as we fell asleep. In the middle of the night she had rolled over towards me and slept with her leg over mine. She hasn't moved 'towards' me in days.
Anyway, this morning she was up early and was downstairs reading when the alarm went off and woke me up. I went downstairs to tell her it went off. She put down her book and jumped up. I asked her what she was reading and she said 'just one of my books'.
She left the room and I went back, curious what she was reading. It was the 'How to Divorce in California' book she had bought 2 years ago.
I went into the kitchen and asked her if she's planning to divorce now. She said "I can't do anything without you checking up on me" and that yes, she was 'done' and was learning what she needed to do to get a divorce. To live her life without me. She had been 'done' for a while and 'knew' that she wasn't going to be with me any more. It doesn't matter if I change my life because it's not about me, it's about her needing to 'do things with her life' that she knows she can't do with me. She was calm.
I calmly told her that she could still do these things, that she can see that I am working on reclaiming me, and being together was better for all of us. Yes, bad DBing.
She says 'no, it's been 7 years we've been trying to 'find ourselves'. I know that you didn't fix yourself when we got back together, you fixed the relationship. She brings up how she is 'taking care of her body now' because she has accepted her 'spiritual connection with herself and God'. I said that she went back to 'being comfortable' and not exercising after I did all the work to restore the family and the relationship and she said that was because she knew I hadn't done the work on myself, and she was still unhappy but hopeful. Since I spiralled downhill after that, she says she sees it's not going to happen while we're together. "I know when I'm done and this is it."
She said she didn't really know what to do - she was reading the divorce book to figure out what should be her next steps and that she doesn't have any money so she's stuck right now.
I asked her if she had 'someone else' and she started to cry and said 'no, I don't have anybody'. I told her she would always have me and she started to blast me saying she hasn't had me for a long time. I told her that I haven't had me for a long time and I'm reclaiming me.
She brings up an issue about how she 'knows' I was depressed and drinking Tuesday night when she went to her friends house overnight. I was puzzled and told her that was not true and why does she 'know that', so she tells me that D12 described what I had to eat for dinner and it was 'weird food'. When I was medicating I would make whatever I could find to eat late at night.
I laughed and said 'I mixed the small bowl of tuna you left for me, with the small bowl of pasta salad and put in some mayo because it was a little dry and had it for lunch' (it might have been dinner, I didn't recall because it wasn't significant to me)'.
She believed me and calmed down on that one. I told her that FaithIsBelieving made me swear not to medicate when I'm anxious - to call ANYBODY and vent or somehow release the fear. So she got angry and a little tearful and said "What about the times you 'swore' to ME you'd get help, that didn't count?". So I said that I was sorry, I let myself stay stuck and didn't reach out.
She said she hopes it works out, but she is done. I told her it will, and I said she'll always have me if she needs someone because I'm not going to stop loving her. I'm calm during this conversation. She says "I can't have you until you have yourself".
She told me that she didn't mean she has 'nobody', she has her connection to God and her integrity so she isn't alone.
She says she has been trying for the past 7 years to get to the place where she can love, and be loved deeply. That she has been waiting for that to happen for me also, and she says "how long do you wait before you admit it isn't going to happen?". That she meets men and women in her life that are caring, vulnerable, loving and authentic and that she realizes that she wants that instead of being in this depressing relationship. She's not looking for a relationship, she's looking for something more than being in this environment with me, where we're always unhappy. And she's done waiting. She needs to make a 'drastic change' in her environment. She knows that she can have those kinds of connections with people, just not with me.
Says she'll always love me, and hopes I build a better life. She knows I'll take care of my girls, but doesn't need me to take care of her. She's going to figure out a way to support herself and is reading and learning what she has to do to get a divorce. She's not in a rush, doesn't see a need to tell the kids anything until we feel like "it's time", and we'll still sleep in the same bed with me unless I'm 'uncomfortable' with that.
I mentioned that she had rolled over onto me last night and she didn't remember that, but then went on to tell me she had a dream about us.
In her dream it's just she and I. We're moving into a house that a 'friend' of mine says it's ok for us to live in because we lost this house. She says it doesn't 'feel right' and as we're moving in the 'friend' and his wife come back to the house and the wife starts moving their stuff in, glaring at her as she does it. The wife pushes all the stuff she has put onto the table off and the friend tells us he's sorry but she changed her mind and wanted to move back in.
He offers us the chance to live in the shed they have but my W says no way, because she doesn't want to be near this woman's anger.
She says she woke up from this dream and was yelling at me, saying something like "Why can't you find a place for us to live!?" I was asleep and I don't recall this but she says she did. Maybe she was quiet, I didn't push it. Then she got up and went to read her divorce book.
She is very calm. She says she's "sad that we couldn't heal ourselves together, but half her life is gone (she's 39) and she doesn't want to live the next half in sadness". That she is sure of her decision. I told her several times that I understand how she feels, that I'm going to rebuild myself and recover our financial stability, and that she doesn't have to act on getting a divorce right now unless she feels she has to 'go right away' it would be better if we were in a better finacial place in a few months. She seems ok with that since she really doesn't think she can afford to make a move right now.
When I look in her eyes I see sadness, a little bit of fear but mostly detachment. She says she's sad this didn't work out but she is ready to do something new with her life. She'll always love me and wants me to be happy.
I jokingly said 'well, so how should I act around you, do you want me to stop touching you? It felt nice to hold you hand last night when we were falling asleep' and her response is "I don't know, I suppose I'll let you know how I feel when I feel it". I did a 'bad boy' thing and joked 'hey, I'm still open for s-x when you need it!' and she smiled and said 'yeah, I guess it's good for us, we need release sometimes'.
So, that's where It's at. It hurts, but not as bad as I thought it would. Maybe it will hit me later. I don't know. I know that no matter what I need to get myself on track for my own life. I guess I'm still in disbelief. She's calm and detaching, but I can see all the hurt that is there under the surface. She 'feels better' when she's out with her friends and support systems instead of with me. I understand.
I guess I'll say that I really messed up by not dealing with my issues. She's been hopeful for a long time but that hope is all gone. Will this make it harder for me to pick myself up? I don't know. It seems painful now and I feel that I just need to let her go do whatever she thinks she needs to do and accept that this marriage is over. Two people can only inflict so much pain on each other for so long.
I have all these pictures of us on the wall in my office that I put up before she came back from her trip. I'm wondering if I should replace them with pics of just the girls and I.
